1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,510 [Music] 2 00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:08,629 there's a whole fleet of look on the sa 3 00:00:14,310 --> 00:00:10,960 oh my gosh they're all going against the 4 00:00:19,029 --> 00:00:16,390 it was basically a cube with inside of 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:19,039 sphere where the points of the cube 6 00:00:37,190 --> 00:00:33,220 [Music] 7 00:00:38,709 --> 00:00:37,200 [Applause] 8 00:00:41,030 --> 00:00:38,719 so this isn't anything that just is 9 00:00:47,510 --> 00:00:41,040 limited to the united states it's a 10 00:00:52,470 --> 00:00:49,990 hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo 11 00:00:54,630 --> 00:00:52,480 podcast my name is andy and we roll on 12 00:00:57,110 --> 00:00:54,640 into january with a former uk 13 00:00:59,110 --> 00:00:57,120 intelligence officer paratrooper with 14 00:01:01,270 --> 00:00:59,120 more than 20 years producing strategic 15 00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:01,280 and operational advice to fortune 500 16 00:01:06,149 --> 00:01:03,680 companies aerospace and government 17 00:01:09,109 --> 00:01:06,159 clients frank also shares his interest 18 00:01:11,590 --> 00:01:09,119 in post-quantum military tech ufos uaps 19 00:01:13,590 --> 00:01:11,600 geopolitics and international relations 20 00:01:15,590 --> 00:01:13,600 and i quite enjoy watching his uh his 21 00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:15,600 twitter battles and debates 22 00:01:19,510 --> 00:01:17,360 on the social media channels as well so 23 00:01:21,429 --> 00:01:19,520 frank melbourne welcome at the podcast 24 00:01:23,109 --> 00:01:21,439 man thank you very much brother um i 25 00:01:26,230 --> 00:01:23,119 appreciate it and i wanted to say 26 00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:26,240 congratulations um for coming so far 27 00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:28,320 with your podcast and i was also wanted 28 00:01:32,069 --> 00:01:30,640 to say like a special thanks to dan uh 29 00:01:35,030 --> 00:01:32,079 for following the 30 00:01:37,109 --> 00:01:35,040 um the constitutional developments uh 31 00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:37,119 with all the different uh ins and outs 32 00:01:42,469 --> 00:01:40,320 and all the twists um in the various uh 33 00:01:43,990 --> 00:01:42,479 bills in in congress and the senate and 34 00:01:46,069 --> 00:01:44,000 the house of representatives because 35 00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:46,079 it's not the easiest thing to follow and 36 00:01:50,630 --> 00:01:48,720 dan's really converted himself into uh 37 00:01:52,230 --> 00:01:50,640 you know into an expert on that and i've 38 00:01:53,670 --> 00:01:52,240 been tuning in to your channel to 39 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:53,680 basically get the latest updates because 40 00:01:57,830 --> 00:01:55,600 it's not the easiest thing to follow 41 00:01:58,950 --> 00:01:57,840 um so um thank you both very much for 42 00:02:01,350 --> 00:01:58,960 that 43 00:02:02,230 --> 00:02:01,360 no it's great and listen i i look at it 44 00:02:03,830 --> 00:02:02,240 as if 45 00:02:05,350 --> 00:02:03,840 i don't know a lot of that stuff and i 46 00:02:06,950 --> 00:02:05,360 asked dan to go and check out and he 47 00:02:08,710 --> 00:02:06,960 does that anyway but 48 00:02:09,990 --> 00:02:08,720 and helping myself out it helps other 49 00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:10,000 people out so that's good because i 50 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:11,280 think we've all got the same kind of 51 00:02:15,670 --> 00:02:13,360 questions and you can tune in sometimes 52 00:02:18,070 --> 00:02:15,680 to various podcasts and especially to 53 00:02:20,150 --> 00:02:18,080 the ones on the cana and the us side of 54 00:02:22,150 --> 00:02:20,160 things because they understand that more 55 00:02:23,830 --> 00:02:22,160 and they get how their politics works a 56 00:02:25,430 --> 00:02:23,840 lot better so you have a lot of people 57 00:02:27,830 --> 00:02:25,440 who don't necessarily understand the 58 00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:27,840 workings of it and and all the little um 59 00:02:31,589 --> 00:02:29,760 little nuances so it's been great having 60 00:02:33,110 --> 00:02:31,599 dan can i break that stuff down and i'm 61 00:02:34,830 --> 00:02:33,120 glad you've got the use of it as well 62 00:02:36,150 --> 00:02:34,840 frank so yeah very much 63 00:02:37,509 --> 00:02:36,160 appreciated you i'm doing a great job 64 00:02:39,750 --> 00:02:37,519 the other thing that i wanted to say um 65 00:02:41,509 --> 00:02:39,760 for your listeners um how i really 66 00:02:45,430 --> 00:02:41,519 became kind of like an acquainted with 67 00:02:47,270 --> 00:02:45,440 you guys uh it was in april of this year 68 00:02:48,229 --> 00:02:47,280 um you 69 00:02:50,470 --> 00:02:48,239 uh 70 00:02:52,150 --> 00:02:50,480 you andy and jay at project unity you 71 00:02:54,949 --> 00:02:52,160 did what i consider to be kind of two 72 00:02:56,390 --> 00:02:54,959 groundbreaking interviews with uh luis 73 00:02:57,910 --> 00:02:56,400 elizondo 74 00:02:59,910 --> 00:02:57,920 which really kind of developed our 75 00:03:01,750 --> 00:02:59,920 understanding of uap technology and 76 00:03:04,790 --> 00:03:01,760 where he was going with it 77 00:03:06,229 --> 00:03:04,800 and i took those back to the begin set 78 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:06,239 out center for strategic studies where 79 00:03:09,990 --> 00:03:07,920 i'd written my first paper 80 00:03:12,470 --> 00:03:10,000 and uh those two groundbreaking 81 00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:12,480 interviews were uh kind of i'd say like 82 00:03:18,949 --> 00:03:15,840 you know 70 the meat of uh of my second 83 00:03:19,990 --> 00:03:18,959 paper that i wrote on on uap um so i 84 00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:20,000 want to thank you guys for that i mean 85 00:03:23,509 --> 00:03:21,840 you and jay did a fantastic job on those 86 00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:23,519 interviews and it really opened up kind 87 00:03:27,350 --> 00:03:25,120 of elizondo in a way that we hadn't seen 88 00:03:29,190 --> 00:03:27,360 before so thank you for that 89 00:03:30,309 --> 00:03:29,200 no thanks i appreciate that and i like 90 00:03:31,910 --> 00:03:30,319 to think there's 91 00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:31,920 a lot of channels out there that are 92 00:03:35,670 --> 00:03:33,760 developing their own styles and tones 93 00:03:37,589 --> 00:03:35,680 and you can certainly jump about a few 94 00:03:39,830 --> 00:03:37,599 shows now and hear very different takes 95 00:03:41,350 --> 00:03:39,840 and questions and yeah so i really 96 00:03:43,670 --> 00:03:41,360 appreciate that as well so thank you 97 00:03:46,309 --> 00:03:43,680 very much frank um but listen to today's 98 00:03:48,309 --> 00:03:46,319 show is all about you and uh we tried to 99 00:03:50,309 --> 00:03:48,319 arrange this now about seven weeks ago 100 00:03:51,910 --> 00:03:50,319 initially and i got covered and all that 101 00:03:53,589 --> 00:03:51,920 stuff that came along with it and and 102 00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:53,599 here we are now well a little peek 103 00:03:57,910 --> 00:03:55,120 behind the curtain we are recording this 104 00:03:59,030 --> 00:03:57,920 on new year's eve so uh as we speak 105 00:04:00,869 --> 00:03:59,040 people are out and getting ready to 106 00:04:02,309 --> 00:04:00,879 party and whatnot but we're having a 107 00:04:04,630 --> 00:04:02,319 what's going to be a very interesting 108 00:04:06,390 --> 00:04:04,640 discussion here um but it's going to be 109 00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:06,400 released into the new year so happy new 110 00:04:11,270 --> 00:04:09,200 year 2022 when everyone else hears this 111 00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:11,280 frank uh you've you've had a very 112 00:04:14,550 --> 00:04:12,959 interesting life so far and i'm sure 113 00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:14,560 there's a lot more interesting life to 114 00:04:17,509 --> 00:04:16,320 be lived but 115 00:04:19,830 --> 00:04:17,519 take us a little bit through your 116 00:04:21,990 --> 00:04:19,840 background a former uk intelligence 117 00:04:25,110 --> 00:04:22,000 officer paratrooper 118 00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:25,120 you've you've done quite a lot already 119 00:04:31,830 --> 00:04:27,600 um yeah um 120 00:04:34,070 --> 00:04:31,840 yeah i i was um i followed basically the 121 00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:34,080 the example of my family um into the 122 00:04:39,189 --> 00:04:36,720 military uh my father was in the royal 123 00:04:41,189 --> 00:04:39,199 scots grace and later in the parachute 124 00:04:42,629 --> 00:04:41,199 regiment um and then later in the 125 00:04:45,510 --> 00:04:42,639 special air service 126 00:04:46,950 --> 00:04:45,520 and uh my family regiment uh was is the 127 00:04:48,629 --> 00:04:46,960 royal scots graves although i didn't go 128 00:04:50,950 --> 00:04:48,639 into the graves but my grandfather 129 00:04:53,670 --> 00:04:50,960 served with the graves in world war ii 130 00:04:55,909 --> 00:04:53,680 uh my stepfather also uh he was in the 131 00:04:57,350 --> 00:04:55,919 argyle and southern highlanders and then 132 00:04:59,270 --> 00:04:57,360 in the parachute regiment and then the 133 00:05:01,270 --> 00:04:59,280 special air service 134 00:05:02,550 --> 00:05:01,280 my godfather was in the cold stream 135 00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:02,560 guards and later in the parachute 136 00:05:05,189 --> 00:05:03,520 regiment 137 00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:05,199 my other godfather 138 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:07,120 actually commanded sas 139 00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:08,800 as i said my other grandfather as well 140 00:05:13,110 --> 00:05:10,720 on my mother's side he served in both 141 00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:13,120 world wars so that was kind of really my 142 00:05:17,909 --> 00:05:15,680 impetus for joining the uk military um 143 00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:17,919 we've got actually a very long line 144 00:05:21,830 --> 00:05:20,320 of military service stretching back like 145 00:05:24,710 --> 00:05:21,840 literally hundreds of years 146 00:05:26,390 --> 00:05:24,720 sort of father to son so i really you 147 00:05:29,909 --> 00:05:26,400 know i i always wanted to be a soldier 148 00:05:32,230 --> 00:05:29,919 and i joined at 17 and um i joined the 149 00:05:33,749 --> 00:05:32,240 army reserve as a paratrooper 150 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:33,759 and uh 151 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:36,720 and from there um i did okay in school i 152 00:05:40,150 --> 00:05:38,000 got offered a place at the london school 153 00:05:42,550 --> 00:05:40,160 of economics which was paid for by the 154 00:05:44,230 --> 00:05:42,560 military um so i joined 155 00:05:45,749 --> 00:05:44,240 university as an army scholar i did 156 00:05:47,510 --> 00:05:45,759 international relations 157 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:47,520 and i was offered a place at sandhurst 158 00:05:52,150 --> 00:05:49,840 on the back of that and um and then from 159 00:05:54,230 --> 00:05:52,160 sandhurst i was recruited into into 160 00:05:56,070 --> 00:05:54,240 military intelligence um and the rest is 161 00:05:58,390 --> 00:05:56,080 kind of like history really but it was a 162 00:06:01,350 --> 00:05:58,400 very very fascinating and it was a you 163 00:06:02,950 --> 00:06:01,360 know both a joy and uh and a reward to 164 00:06:04,950 --> 00:06:02,960 serve my country 165 00:06:07,670 --> 00:06:04,960 yeah and thank you for that service as 166 00:06:09,670 --> 00:06:07,680 well and we've spoken to a lot of you 167 00:06:11,189 --> 00:06:09,680 know u.s military and such on the 168 00:06:13,430 --> 00:06:11,199 podcast and 169 00:06:15,189 --> 00:06:13,440 i think you're the first a uk um 170 00:06:16,550 --> 00:06:15,199 serviceman so again thank you very much 171 00:06:18,469 --> 00:06:16,560 and a few listeners echoed that 172 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:18,479 sentiment as well 173 00:06:22,390 --> 00:06:20,240 and all of that background and that 174 00:06:24,309 --> 00:06:22,400 history and that rich family history at 175 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:24,319 what point do you come to have an 176 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:26,560 interest in ufos was it from a young age 177 00:06:31,029 --> 00:06:28,960 or is it something that came later 178 00:06:33,110 --> 00:06:31,039 no it's from a very young age um my 179 00:06:35,670 --> 00:06:33,120 family uh you know my mom and my dad 180 00:06:36,870 --> 00:06:35,680 were you know sort of very open-minded 181 00:06:39,110 --> 00:06:36,880 i was brought up with kind of like you 182 00:06:41,110 --> 00:06:39,120 know sort of histories of atlantis and 183 00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:41,120 you know charles burlitz mysteries of 184 00:06:46,070 --> 00:06:44,800 atlantis um eric von danican 185 00:06:48,309 --> 00:06:46,080 and uh 186 00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:48,319 and i've got some ufo books um here 187 00:06:51,830 --> 00:06:49,440 actually down here 188 00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:51,840 inherited from my dad which uh 189 00:06:55,909 --> 00:06:54,160 from the 1960s sanderson you know 190 00:06:56,950 --> 00:06:55,919 uninvited visitors 191 00:06:58,150 --> 00:06:56,960 um 192 00:06:59,270 --> 00:06:58,160 and 193 00:07:01,350 --> 00:06:59,280 let's just say when i was in the 194 00:07:03,430 --> 00:07:01,360 military i i got a an increased 195 00:07:04,629 --> 00:07:03,440 appreciation for uap but it's one of 196 00:07:06,790 --> 00:07:04,639 those things you kind of like leave it 197 00:07:08,070 --> 00:07:06,800 alone when you leave and i just kind of 198 00:07:09,510 --> 00:07:08,080 like put it on the back burner you know 199 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:09,520 we've all got busy lives we've got 200 00:07:11,909 --> 00:07:10,960 things to do we want to like follow 201 00:07:14,309 --> 00:07:11,919 careers 202 00:07:16,790 --> 00:07:14,319 um i kept in touch with uaps reading 203 00:07:19,909 --> 00:07:16,800 books over the years um but it wasn't 204 00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:19,919 really until about 2016. i got onto the 205 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:22,160 uh the richard dolan members site 206 00:07:27,029 --> 00:07:24,880 and um i kind of got involved with that 207 00:07:28,390 --> 00:07:27,039 and i was writing things on the site and 208 00:07:29,830 --> 00:07:28,400 then um 209 00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:29,840 i was kind of like well you know i 210 00:07:32,550 --> 00:07:31,360 should start writing about things myself 211 00:07:34,710 --> 00:07:32,560 because i'm accumulating all the 212 00:07:36,230 --> 00:07:34,720 information and it's fascinating me and 213 00:07:38,550 --> 00:07:36,240 it's kind of really drawn me in my 214 00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:38,560 background is as a 215 00:07:42,629 --> 00:07:40,240 post-military i work with oil and gas 216 00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:42,639 companies in the middle east um so i was 217 00:07:46,070 --> 00:07:44,080 advising clients kind of like broad 218 00:07:47,110 --> 00:07:46,080 level downwards to you know like locals 219 00:07:49,909 --> 00:07:47,120 on the ground 220 00:07:52,150 --> 00:07:49,919 on um you know security issues political 221 00:07:53,670 --> 00:07:52,160 risk regulatory risk how to operate on 222 00:07:55,350 --> 00:07:53,680 the ground and kind of like you know 223 00:07:59,189 --> 00:07:55,360 sort of medium to high-risk environments 224 00:08:00,309 --> 00:07:59,199 from north africa to the middle east and 225 00:08:01,430 --> 00:08:00,319 um 226 00:08:03,749 --> 00:08:01,440 i've kind of like transferred that 227 00:08:05,830 --> 00:08:03,759 across to uap i i wrote a few papers on 228 00:08:07,670 --> 00:08:05,840 the middle east for various think tanks 229 00:08:10,150 --> 00:08:07,680 uh israeli think tanks 230 00:08:12,390 --> 00:08:10,160 and um then my interest just got was 231 00:08:13,909 --> 00:08:12,400 became captivated by uap 232 00:08:16,070 --> 00:08:13,919 um so i went from being kind of like a 233 00:08:17,110 --> 00:08:16,080 middle east analyst to being a sort of a 234 00:08:19,350 --> 00:08:17,120 uap 235 00:08:21,270 --> 00:08:19,360 uh strategic uh studies national 236 00:08:22,950 --> 00:08:21,280 security analyst i guess you'd call it i 237 00:08:25,909 --> 00:08:22,960 wouldn't call myself a 238 00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:25,919 ufologist per se um i think there's a a 239 00:08:29,909 --> 00:08:28,080 lot of great research in use in ufology 240 00:08:32,550 --> 00:08:29,919 a lot of fantastic research there's also 241 00:08:34,149 --> 00:08:32,560 a lot of baggage in ufology as well um 242 00:08:36,310 --> 00:08:34,159 and the way i approached it initially 243 00:08:38,389 --> 00:08:36,320 was really kind of like nuts and bolts 244 00:08:40,389 --> 00:08:38,399 and as from you know from a national 245 00:08:42,709 --> 00:08:40,399 security perspective but since kind of 246 00:08:45,750 --> 00:08:42,719 like 2016 my mind has like really been 247 00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:45,760 blown and kind of opened up and i mean i 248 00:08:49,269 --> 00:08:47,120 spent a lot of time talking with people 249 00:08:51,110 --> 00:08:49,279 like colonel john alexander um people 250 00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:51,120 who've been at places like skinwalker 251 00:08:54,550 --> 00:08:52,880 and you know people i talk to a lot of 252 00:08:56,470 --> 00:08:54,560 people who work on sensitive government 253 00:08:58,470 --> 00:08:56,480 projects as well and it's just really 254 00:09:01,509 --> 00:08:58,480 opened up my mind to the whole kind of 255 00:09:04,550 --> 00:09:01,519 consciousness aspect as well of it um so 256 00:09:05,670 --> 00:09:04,560 i've gone very very far from 2016 where 257 00:09:07,430 --> 00:09:05,680 i was just looking at like nuts and 258 00:09:09,030 --> 00:09:07,440 bolts ufos to 259 00:09:11,509 --> 00:09:09,040 looking at the whole range of phenomena 260 00:09:13,430 --> 00:09:11,519 the whole kind of weird spooky uh you 261 00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:13,440 know high strangeness of it 262 00:09:17,350 --> 00:09:15,440 there's a lot to unpack there and but 263 00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:17,360 the first thing that comes to my mind is 264 00:09:21,030 --> 00:09:19,120 you talk about that time you had in the 265 00:09:23,350 --> 00:09:21,040 military what was the general 266 00:09:25,509 --> 00:09:23,360 conversation did did you have chats with 267 00:09:27,670 --> 00:09:25,519 your kind of fellow servicemen and women 268 00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:27,680 ever about ufos did it ever come up just 269 00:09:31,190 --> 00:09:29,360 in the kind of banter back and forward 270 00:09:32,630 --> 00:09:31,200 and and what was that conversation if 271 00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:32,640 there was 272 00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:34,480 it did but it's nothing that i can talk 273 00:09:40,230 --> 00:09:37,680 about and and i don't say that being um 274 00:09:42,230 --> 00:09:40,240 um you know being i am reticent to say 275 00:09:44,389 --> 00:09:42,240 that uh but i i can't talk about any 276 00:09:45,910 --> 00:09:44,399 conversations that i've had or any 277 00:09:47,509 --> 00:09:45,920 information that i came across as a 278 00:09:49,750 --> 00:09:47,519 result of my service because the the 279 00:09:51,110 --> 00:09:49,760 official secrets act is all encompassing 280 00:09:53,829 --> 00:09:51,120 i spent a lot of time with the royal air 281 00:09:56,710 --> 00:09:53,839 force i spent time flying on a-wax i 282 00:09:58,310 --> 00:09:56,720 spent a lot of time on raf bases uh you 283 00:09:59,829 --> 00:09:58,320 know in the office's mess 284 00:10:01,990 --> 00:09:59,839 you know chatting with pilots and also 285 00:10:03,910 --> 00:10:02,000 debriefing pilots 286 00:10:05,190 --> 00:10:03,920 so let's just say that that piqued my 287 00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:05,200 interest i can't really go into more 288 00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:06,480 depth than that 289 00:10:09,590 --> 00:10:07,760 sure so it sounds like there was an 290 00:10:11,430 --> 00:10:09,600 interest there not just on your part but 291 00:10:13,269 --> 00:10:11,440 probably from other people as well which 292 00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:13,279 which is always good especially from a 293 00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:16,240 uk point of view and i'd love to talk to 294 00:10:21,350 --> 00:10:18,560 you now about that uk point of view 295 00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:21,360 why is it taking the uk 296 00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:22,399 at the 297 00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:24,800 as it seems on the front of things to 298 00:10:29,110 --> 00:10:26,959 get so involved in this subject because 299 00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:29,120 we still seem like we are years and 300 00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,480 years behind other countries and 301 00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,640 continents 302 00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:34,480 i think there's a couple of reasons uh 303 00:10:38,949 --> 00:10:36,560 one is um 304 00:10:39,910 --> 00:10:38,959 is that the uk is a highly secretive 305 00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:39,920 state 306 00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:41,839 um i was part of that kind of secret 307 00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:44,320 state i'll give an example um you know 308 00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:45,600 when i was a young officer in northern 309 00:10:49,030 --> 00:10:47,760 ireland a young intelligence officer uh 310 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:49,040 there were things 311 00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:50,720 that uh you know we were doing that you 312 00:10:54,069 --> 00:10:52,720 know the politicians had no idea what we 313 00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:54,079 were doing they just give you a mandate 314 00:10:57,829 --> 00:10:55,519 to operate and you operate and it's all 315 00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:57,839 based on need to know um it's very very 316 00:11:01,670 --> 00:11:00,000 compartmentalized so that's one reason i 317 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:01,680 think the second reason is 318 00:11:05,829 --> 00:11:02,880 um that 319 00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:05,839 the uk is very much following um the uk 320 00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,440 the the american 321 00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:09,440 uh leadership on this 322 00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:12,240 and we saw that as well in um 323 00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:13,760 in the whole um 324 00:11:17,829 --> 00:11:15,760 you know render forest incident where 325 00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:17,839 where basically uk kind of abrogated uh 326 00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:20,480 sovereignty effectively and allowed uh 327 00:11:24,310 --> 00:11:21,680 the head of the american air force to 328 00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:24,320 come over to the uk um and to 329 00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:26,320 basically take over the investigation so 330 00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,920 i think the uk that plays very much 331 00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:29,760 second fiddle to to the americans on 332 00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:31,120 that and i think it's a very very 333 00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:33,760 sensitive issue um i was going to say 334 00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:36,480 my experiences in the uk military okay 335 00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:38,959 and i'll say this tongue-in-cheek um 336 00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:40,959 compared to what i saw and compared to 337 00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:42,880 what you see in project condyn uh you 338 00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:45,040 know the report uh unidentified aerial 339 00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:47,279 phenomenon in the uk air defense region 340 00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:48,800 are very very different and that's all i 341 00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,320 can say 342 00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:52,880 sure and from a uk point of view you 343 00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:55,600 said that we are following the us's lead 344 00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:56,720 the us 345 00:12:01,110 --> 00:11:59,120 as it seems is talking about this in the 346 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:01,120 mainstream you're hearing about it on 347 00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:02,800 you know the when the white house does 348 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:04,560 their daily press briefings there was a 349 00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:07,040 time especially back in may april may 350 00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:09,279 june this year where last year if you're 351 00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:11,680 listening to this in 2022 there was a 352 00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:14,079 lot of questions and press briefings 353 00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:16,160 we don't seem to have that in the uk we 354 00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:19,920 had one small um raising of the question 355 00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:21,680 uh baroness goldie i believe was 356 00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:23,279 involved in that where it was pretty 357 00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:25,279 much laughed off and poo pooed back in 358 00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:27,279 the summer um when it was brought up 359 00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:28,639 that you know the us are taking the 360 00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,880 subject seriously did the did the uk 361 00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:32,800 government have any plans to follow that 362 00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:35,040 and it was laughed off do you think 363 00:12:37,829 --> 00:12:36,560 again i know you're coming from a place 364 00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,839 of knowledge of some of this as well so 365 00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:39,360 i appreciate those answers can be a bit 366 00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:41,600 difficult but is there much more of an 367 00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:43,040 interest in the background in this 368 00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,519 subject or are we happy to let the us 369 00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,440 take the lead in the sense that just do 370 00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:49,279 what you want the uk doesn't want 371 00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:51,040 anything to do with it 372 00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:53,760 look i'd say there's very much uh a uk 373 00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,000 interest in the subject uh you only have 374 00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:58,160 to look at project condy 375 00:13:01,030 --> 00:12:59,200 and now although it's kind of 376 00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,040 tongue-in-cheek it says um 377 00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:03,519 you know it was of no uh intelligence 378 00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:05,920 interest okay but then you look and it 379 00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:09,360 says uh the uk would consider uap to a 380 00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:11,440 threat if they were able to penetrate 381 00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:14,959 the uk air defense region um 382 00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:16,480 uh yes you have to kind of read between 383 00:13:21,269 --> 00:13:19,279 the lines if the uk if uap were able to 384 00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:21,279 penetrate the uk air defense region if 385 00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:23,040 they were able to defeat radars if they 386 00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:25,360 were able to uh you know evade fighters 387 00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:28,240 and uh and ground and ground-based uh 388 00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:29,760 you know intersection 389 00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:31,600 um then we would consider that a threat 390 00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:32,880 so i think you have to read between the 391 00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:34,560 lines on that one and i think there's 392 00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:36,320 very much an interest now i'm not saying 393 00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,839 that there was some kind of big cover up 394 00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,839 with project condyle what i'm saying is 395 00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:41,600 i don't think that the guy who wrote it 396 00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:43,040 and he's very capable and you guys did a 397 00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:45,199 great article on it as well the guy was 398 00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,079 a pilot i believe aircrew and he also 399 00:13:52,710 --> 00:13:50,639 had a you know a a scientific background 400 00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,720 in radar technologies i just don't think 401 00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,920 he had all the 402 00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:55,440 i don't think he had access to all the 403 00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,959 information available when he was making 404 00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:58,320 his report 405 00:14:01,269 --> 00:14:00,160 and and also it was based at secret 406 00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:01,279 level if you look at the report it's 407 00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:05,040 secret level so if if there were a uk 408 00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:08,160 effort looking at uh uap it would be uh 409 00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:10,639 you know top secret and above 410 00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:12,560 do you think because for decades and 411 00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:15,519 decades the the lore of of ufos and 412 00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:17,279 ufology there's that dirty word that you 413 00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:18,959 used before as well that's got so many 414 00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:20,399 connotations 415 00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:22,000 from a united states point of view we 416 00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,399 hear about all these secret cabals and 417 00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:26,639 you know rooms within governments rooms 418 00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:28,160 within rooms within rooms hidden 419 00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:30,880 underground bases and mountains area 51 420 00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,120 grimly or s4 yet from a uk point of view 421 00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:37,519 there seems to be nothing but if if you 422 00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:39,040 read between those lines that we do have 423 00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:40,160 an interest 424 00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:42,959 are we just or are the uk 425 00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:45,519 so much better at keeping all that quiet 426 00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:47,279 because that seems to be a hell of a lot 427 00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:49,040 that's come out over the years 428 00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:51,440 from the united states 429 00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:53,360 i think the uk maybe is better at 430 00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:55,279 keeping things quiet 431 00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:58,320 i mean for example you know elizondo 432 00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:00,160 um and others 433 00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:02,320 who've had uh you know top secret you 434 00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:04,240 know tsci clearances can talk about 435 00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:06,399 things within certain parameters whereas 436 00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:08,160 i can't um 437 00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:09,360 and i'm not saying that i have the same 438 00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:12,880 kind of knowledge as elizondo 439 00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:14,959 maybe interesting knowledge but i don't 440 00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:16,079 have you know maybe the breadth of 441 00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:17,519 knowledge that he does 442 00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:20,079 um in terms of like a panoramic view of 443 00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:22,480 what was going on in terms of uap 444 00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:25,040 but i think 445 00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:28,399 the uk has to be very very careful um 446 00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:30,160 about what it uh 447 00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:32,240 what it emits what it disseminates the 448 00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:34,079 public and what it doesn't 449 00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:35,839 and i think for year for years and years 450 00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:38,079 it's been such a kind of taboo subject 451 00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:39,199 um 452 00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,480 i've talked to 453 00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:42,240 nick pope about this and you know he's 454 00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:44,320 got like one view he was at the 455 00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:45,440 you know the ministry of defense 456 00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:46,560 obviously collating these kind of 457 00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:49,040 reports i was kind of like on the ground 458 00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,839 uh talking to people but uh there's no 459 00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:53,279 doubt in my mind that there's a lot more 460 00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:57,199 going on in the uk as regards uap then 461 00:16:01,990 --> 00:15:59,759 came out in project condyne and that the 462 00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:02,000 ua that the the uk government is 463 00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,759 prepared to talk about now there's a lot 464 00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:05,279 more 465 00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:06,639 the condition report one of the 466 00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:09,920 suggestions was that uep ufos could be a 467 00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:11,040 plasma 468 00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:12,480 i would ask you what your thoughts are 469 00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,920 on this because for me even the 470 00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,360 reference that oh yeah it could be some 471 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:17,120 sort of plasma phenomenon 472 00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:18,720 doesn't mean that it's not something 473 00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,360 potentially non-human 474 00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,440 yeah but it also says um 475 00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,199 the condyle report that uh you know that 476 00:16:30,069 --> 00:16:28,079 uap exists are you know is indisputable 477 00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:30,079 and that uh you know these objects can 478 00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:31,920 uh you know outmaneuver 479 00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:34,079 uh you know the you know fighter 480 00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:36,000 interceptors and and ground-based 481 00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,759 missiles right and that can maneuver in 482 00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,000 extraordinary ways so 483 00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:41,839 i'm not convinced that it's just a 484 00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:44,959 plasma that is responsible for that um 485 00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:47,279 they talk extensively in condyle it's a 486 00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:49,600 400-page report they talk extensively 487 00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:51,279 about plasmas 488 00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:54,079 in the context of um you know radar 489 00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:56,000 decoys and kind of like exotic military 490 00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:58,240 technologies i think plasmas could be 491 00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:59,199 one 492 00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:00,320 uh 493 00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:02,160 could be one kind of conclusion that you 494 00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:04,160 could draw about uap but i think there's 495 00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:06,079 a lot of other possibilities as well and 496 00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:07,919 i think since the condyne report you 497 00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,079 know what we've seen for example with um 498 00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:12,079 you know the west coast sightings 499 00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:14,000 so the east coast sightings in the us 500 00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:15,360 and you know the the so-called the 501 00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:16,880 southern california sightings like 502 00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,039 nimitz i think there's a lot more to uap 503 00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,829 every time we talk about this subject 504 00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,439 and i mean just people with an interest 505 00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:27,839 in ufos generally we talk about the 506 00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:30,000 potential for it being a more 507 00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:33,360 terrestrial explanation i.e u.s russian 508 00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,440 or chinese technology 509 00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,440 does the uk 510 00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:39,120 enjoy being left out of that 511 00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:41,520 conversation in terms of those are the 512 00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:43,600 three big superpowers they have all this 513 00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:44,840 secret tech 514 00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:48,240 now as much as you can where does the uk 515 00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:50,480 sit in terms of advanced drone 516 00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:52,640 technology you know advanced military 517 00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,320 technology because we tend not to be 518 00:17:58,830 --> 00:17:56,080 involved in those conversations but i'm 519 00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:58,840 sure there's something there 520 00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,440 uh the uk is one of the 521 00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:03,200 preeminent military powers in the world 522 00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:04,799 um you only have to look at the fact 523 00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:05,919 that uh 524 00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:07,120 when you look for example i was looking 525 00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:09,360 today at um 526 00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:11,120 i was looking at a drive article and it 527 00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:13,679 was on the uh the us navy's railgun 528 00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:16,480 right and it had like you know baseba 529 00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:18,080 systems right written down the side of 530 00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:20,559 the railgun uh the ba the 531 00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,320 british aerospace and british defense 532 00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:23,840 and contractors in general because 533 00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,320 there's a whole swath of of uh of 534 00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:28,559 defense contractors from you know uh 535 00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,320 from actually producing like the big 536 00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:31,840 ticket items down to like you know the 537 00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:33,919 nuts and bolts literally nuts and bolts 538 00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:36,400 um the the british are dug in deeper 539 00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:38,320 than alabama tick i believe when it 540 00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,360 comes to to to the uap uh issue and 541 00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,679 there's a lot more there 542 00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,600 let me ask you then i suppose this comes 543 00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:47,360 from just as came on to my the top of my 544 00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:48,320 head there 545 00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:50,960 if we are talking that the uk the sorry 546 00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:53,039 the us china and russia those three big 547 00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:55,440 superpowers are potentially harboring 548 00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,360 some pretty amazing technologies of 549 00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:59,120 their own they're spying on each other 550 00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:01,039 there's drones buzzing each other's uh 551 00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,799 navy ships and whatnot 552 00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:04,320 what would be the next country would it 553 00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:06,400 be the uk that would sit next in that 554 00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:08,559 list of of countries with that sort of 555 00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:12,000 technology or would it be something else 556 00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:13,840 well no i think the uk is like well up 557 00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:16,160 there with the americans because 558 00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:17,760 there's almost like a seamless kind of 559 00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:19,600 transfer of technology between the us 560 00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:21,679 and the uk and there always has been 561 00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:23,840 um i would say that uh probably you know 562 00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:24,480 the 563 00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:28,400 of technology because traditionally uh 564 00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:30,160 you know the uk is an open society so 565 00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:32,240 that kind of breeds uh more innovation 566 00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:33,679 and that's why you know britain is a 567 00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:35,440 small country but we've got like uh you 568 00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:37,200 know the fifth or sixth biggest uh kind 569 00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:39,280 of arms exports in the world right we've 570 00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:40,720 always punched above our weight the 571 00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:42,880 brits uh you know brits are highly 572 00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,400 innovative and we've always been leaders 573 00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,080 in military technology you only have to 574 00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:48,080 look at our performance in world war ii 575 00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:50,320 and uh you know the fact that together 576 00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,760 with the americans together with the 577 00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:53,840 australians the canadians uh you know 578 00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,760 the aussies and new zealanders uh we're 579 00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:58,240 part of you know the most the most uh 580 00:20:02,870 --> 00:19:59,919 you know advanced intelligence network 581 00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:02,880 in the world um you know the five eyes 582 00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:03,760 so 583 00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:04,960 um 584 00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,360 i would put the uk definitely on a par 585 00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:09,679 uh technology wise you know with both 586 00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:13,120 russia china and uh you know as i said 587 00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:14,799 with the americans it's seamless 588 00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:17,840 technology uh transfer in some cases the 589 00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:19,120 f-22 is the only thing that the 590 00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:20,480 americans haven't transferred to their 591 00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:22,799 allies but if you look like the f-35 592 00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,559 they've given it to you know 593 00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,480 that the brits are involved in f-35 the 594 00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:28,320 norwegians are involved the italians are 595 00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:30,400 involved okay the turks are booted out 596 00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:31,919 because they wanted to buy s 400 from 597 00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,039 the russians 598 00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,760 um but uh that there's a pretty very 599 00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:37,840 there's a very very close technology uh 600 00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:39,760 transfer agreement between uh you know 601 00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:42,480 specific allies uh obviously the the 602 00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:44,000 english-speaking countries i said the oz 603 00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:45,520 kanukas is it called you know the five 604 00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:48,240 eyes are kind of like the closest uh 605 00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:50,000 israel obviously is very very close to 606 00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:51,840 the americans as well and i know that uh 607 00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:53,520 from my work with the beggin uh sedate 608 00:20:57,909 --> 00:20:56,000 center for strategic studies 609 00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,919 um but uh no the brits are well out 610 00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,679 there 611 00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:01,520 now you mentioned the the east coast 612 00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:03,919 events that happened back in 2004 and 613 00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:06,559 beyond and no doubt before 2004 as well 614 00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:08,400 but the most famous one the nimitz 615 00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:10,880 princeton are there any events like that 616 00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:12,400 that you've come across or you've heard 617 00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:13,840 of that have happened elsewhere in the 618 00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:16,640 world that you feel are overlooked 619 00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:18,080 yeah definitely i mean i talked about 620 00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:24,470 i think it was on uh 621 00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:27,840 unidentified celebrity review um 622 00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,360 uh that a 623 00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:31,679 a guy i'd work with uh who was kind of a 624 00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,960 mentor to me 625 00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:34,799 um an older guy 626 00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:36,320 um i worked for him when i came out of 627 00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:39,200 the military and a very small firm uh 628 00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:40,159 doing 629 00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:45,750 instead of very confidential um you know 630 00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:48,080 kind of type a risk management uh and 631 00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:51,440 reporting for uh fortune fortune 632 00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,400 uh 500 and ftse 100 companies and he 633 00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,400 told me he'd been encounter intelligence 634 00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:58,720 and in the late 50s uh there was an 635 00:22:01,830 --> 00:22:00,880 incident on the inner german border 636 00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:01,840 where 637 00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,320 um the east germans and the russians 638 00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:06,400 they'd launched six fighters towards the 639 00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:09,200 inner german border um on the nato side 640 00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:11,600 they'd been four british fighters uh 641 00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:12,960 which were 642 00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:15,039 laun basically scrambled to intercept 643 00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:17,440 them and then from north to south south 644 00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:19,840 travelling sorry in a south north 645 00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:21,280 direction traveling along the inner 646 00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,400 german border when germany was divided 647 00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:26,559 there was a very large uh unidentified 648 00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:29,440 flying object which had uh 649 00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:31,200 uh this person told me it was like you 650 00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:32,480 know the size of a couple of aircraft 651 00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:34,480 carriers according to its uh its radar 652 00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:35,520 signature 653 00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,000 and it literally uh it merged plot with 654 00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:40,559 the six uh eastern blot fighters and the 655 00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,440 four nato fighters and then uh basically 656 00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:45,360 continued in a in a south north 657 00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,400 direction and uh 658 00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:49,919 the east bloc fighters and the nato 659 00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:52,080 fighters completely disappeared and 660 00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:53,520 there was no wreckage ever found on the 661 00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,720 ground 662 00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:57,039 and uh then the person that i was 663 00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:58,480 working for he was in counter 664 00:23:01,510 --> 00:22:59,520 intelligence the british and the 665 00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,520 americans they went around all the nato 666 00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,360 radar sites everybody was told to 667 00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:05,520 basically shut up everybody was reminded 668 00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:07,600 of their security oaths and all the 669 00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:09,679 radar tapes were confiscated those are 670 00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:11,200 the types of uh 671 00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:12,880 of incidents which are being covered up 672 00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:14,240 by the military 673 00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,039 because it shows that uh the military 674 00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:18,960 you know nato and also you know the 675 00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:20,880 warsaw pact in those days the russians 676 00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:22,720 the chinese in these days the brazilians 677 00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:25,600 the indians the japanese the taiwanese 678 00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,039 anybody who has you know advanced 679 00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:29,679 military technology and uh you know a 680 00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,440 technologically advanced air force do 681 00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:33,200 not have control over their skies and 682 00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:34,400 those the kinds of things that have been 683 00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:37,440 covered up and do you think those types 684 00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:40,880 of incidents where pilots go missing or 685 00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,120 or their craft crash because of one of 686 00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:45,520 these events are far more common than 687 00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:48,240 that we're led to believe 688 00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,320 i would believe so yes and i believe uh 689 00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:54,320 you have to read between the lines here 690 00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:57,039 uh i would say that uh the incidence of 691 00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:00,480 uh air intercepts where uh unidentified 692 00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:04,080 craft penetrate uh you know um an air 693 00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:06,559 defense region of the united states 694 00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:09,039 of nato of the uk 695 00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,840 uh are far higher than we are being led 696 00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:13,919 to believe and i did a 697 00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:17,039 for uh american anti-gravity um and for 698 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:18,480 um 699 00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:20,320 yeah for american anti-gravity i did a 700 00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:22,640 short 20-minute presentation a couple of 701 00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:25,039 weeks ago on uh unidentified aerial 702 00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:29,120 phenomena in the canary islands using uh 703 00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:31,440 uh declassified spanish reports okay and 704 00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:33,360 there were multiple scrambles of 705 00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,919 interceptors to uh 706 00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,760 you know to investigate objects that 707 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:39,440 were that were not supposed to be there 708 00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:41,760 that were not uh commercial aircraft 709 00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:43,760 that were not uh 710 00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,120 adversarial aircraft and that were not 711 00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:47,760 spanish aircraft 712 00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:49,600 is there also and this is we're talking 713 00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,679 from from a military point of view but 714 00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:53,360 commercially 715 00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:55,760 is there an understanding or a train of 716 00:24:59,830 --> 00:24:57,440 thought that some of these commercial 717 00:25:02,470 --> 00:24:59,840 craft that go missing out over the ocean 718 00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:02,480 or crash there's ever been incidents 719 00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:05,360 where a uap has been involved but again 720 00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:06,880 that's covered up and put down to some 721 00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,880 kind of technical or malfunction that 722 00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:10,799 can go into the realms of conspiracy 723 00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:13,120 theory chat i know but i do wonder if 724 00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:15,279 that sometimes can happen and it's just 725 00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:16,799 it's easily dismissed 726 00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:18,640 well there's the mantel case in the us 727 00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:21,440 and in the late 1940s um and also 728 00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:23,520 there's uh 729 00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:25,360 there's the book uh you know shoot them 730 00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:26,840 down 731 00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:29,520 by frank fuschina no i believe his name 732 00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:30,240 is 733 00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:31,440 so 734 00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:33,279 there's a lot more going on i believe 735 00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:35,120 and i believe that's one of the reasons 736 00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:37,440 why the u.s military the uk military 737 00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:42,789 the us you don't want to say to your 738 00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:44,240 public that uh you don't have control 739 00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,080 over your skies right i mean you've just 740 00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:48,240 been through the cold war and you've 741 00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:51,200 successfully uh stopped the russians uh 742 00:25:54,789 --> 00:25:52,640 or the soviets and then the russians 743 00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:54,799 penetrating like your airspace and then 744 00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,600 now suddenly you know we're not suddenly 745 00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,279 but you've got these kind of like these 746 00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:01,120 uap which are penetrating your airspace 747 00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:02,720 you can't exactly turn around go 748 00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:04,400 well we managed to stop the russians 749 00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:06,240 invading we saw the soviets invading and 750 00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:07,520 then the russians but we can't stop 751 00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:09,039 these things flying into airspace with 752 00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:10,559 impunity if you look at the history for 753 00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:13,120 example the brits um there was never a 754 00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:15,360 successful penetration in the whole of 755 00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:16,480 the cold war 756 00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:19,200 of you know like a russian long-range 757 00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:21,120 bomber or reconnaissance aircraft uh 758 00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:22,880 trying to penetrate the uk air defense 759 00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,240 region they never managed to because 760 00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:26,159 there was always a fighter scramble and 761 00:26:29,350 --> 00:26:28,240 a fighter intercept that uh that 762 00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:29,360 basically you know said you know 763 00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,120 basically f off before you get into our 764 00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:33,360 airspace but uap seemed to enter 765 00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:35,840 airspace with impunity 766 00:26:41,110 --> 00:26:38,080 from a us point of view there's always 767 00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:41,120 been chat especially recently of 768 00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:42,400 religious 769 00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:44,960 beliefs within parts of the department 770 00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:47,440 of defense and pentagon that sway 771 00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:49,360 people's thoughts that they're demonic 772 00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:51,440 or angelic or whatever those labels may 773 00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:53,360 mean and that can 774 00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:55,520 very much direct how people act towards 775 00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:56,960 this subject within the halls of 776 00:27:00,149 --> 00:26:57,919 government 777 00:27:01,590 --> 00:27:00,159 is that similar for from a uk point of 778 00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:01,600 view as far as your understanding as 779 00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:02,720 well 780 00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:05,200 i've never seen that um 781 00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:09,510 when i was in military intelligence i 782 00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:10,640 never saw 783 00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:12,880 any hint at all that religion 784 00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:16,559 uh played any part in decision making or 785 00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,080 influenced 786 00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:20,399 analyses especially in intelligence i 787 00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:21,520 never saw that i mean i'll give you an 788 00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:23,200 example i mean you know in the british 789 00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:24,799 army you have um 790 00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:26,399 you know like like chapel service and 791 00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:27,840 you'll go and they'll be like you know a 792 00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,399 muslim imam uh in uniform in british 793 00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,240 uniform part of the british chaplaincy 794 00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:34,240 uh you know department uh they'll be 795 00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:36,399 like you know a catholic father there'll 796 00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:39,600 be a a padre a protestant padre 797 00:27:42,789 --> 00:27:41,200 right so 798 00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:42,799 there'll be you know a jewish rabbi as 799 00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,799 well also in british uniform it's it's 800 00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:46,480 very very integrated it's very very 801 00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:48,080 open-minded i've never ever seen that in 802 00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:49,840 the british military 803 00:27:53,269 --> 00:27:51,520 no and that's that's understandable then 804 00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:53,279 because even our politics doesn't lean 805 00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:55,520 that heavily religious and i think it's 806 00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:57,120 something that the british public tend 807 00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:58,880 not to sway too much towards in a 808 00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:01,120 political conversation whereas in the us 809 00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:03,200 we do see that especially what the kind 810 00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:04,720 of highlights and clips we get to see 811 00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:07,200 over over this side of the pond 812 00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:08,720 you mentioned about 813 00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:10,399 countries not wanting to talk about this 814 00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:12,000 for those reasons we were mentioning 815 00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:14,240 before with pilots going down or going 816 00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:16,880 missing um however the us as we know 817 00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:19,679 from 2017 has been more open whether 818 00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:22,159 they wanted to be uh or not their hands 819 00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:24,080 sort of been forced a little bit by 820 00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,799 messers elizondo melon tom de long help 821 00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,480 it off all those gents who are involved 822 00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,240 in these projects and and no doubt 823 00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:32,320 countless others and i suppose i have to 824 00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:34,399 give them senator harry reid uh an 825 00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:35,840 acknowledgement here given he's just 826 00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:38,640 passed away a couple of days as well 827 00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,520 yeah 828 00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:41,440 he done a lot of work that i'm sure i 829 00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:42,880 said i think when i posted on social 830 00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,360 media that we haven't even heard of or 831 00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:47,440 aren't even aware of at this point and 832 00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,520 and may never find out either but a bit 833 00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:51,600 of a trailblazer truly and what he done 834 00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:53,200 and his lofty positions within 835 00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:54,159 government 836 00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:56,080 and part of all that work that he put in 837 00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:59,039 place uh susan goh at the department of 838 00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:01,120 defense has had a rough time of over the 839 00:29:04,870 --> 00:29:03,039 last couple of years doing a lot of back 840 00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:04,880 peddling as well back peddling so fast 841 00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,000 you could have came back across the 842 00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:08,559 atlantic i think at times now 843 00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:10,559 in the dod they are trying to position 844 00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:13,200 the office aoimsg 845 00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:15,520 as a solution to the uap bill that was 846 00:29:20,549 --> 00:29:17,679 signed by president biden and there's 847 00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:20,559 been a bit of rumor and debate online i 848 00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:22,559 was i was speaking back and forward with 849 00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:24,640 roger glassell who said it looked like 850 00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:27,039 aoi msg was going to be the the office 851 00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,360 this was all directed to i didn't feel 852 00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:31,840 that's what susan goes statement was do 853 00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:33,200 you think it's going to be something 854 00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:34,720 that comes and goes do you think it's 855 00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,120 going to run alongside the ufo office 856 00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:39,520 that is set up or what are your thoughts 857 00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:42,480 yeah i think the aomi said um 858 00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:43,360 a 859 00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:46,480 i think it's uh 860 00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:48,720 yeah yeah exactly i think it's a uh it's 861 00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,320 definitely been an attempt to 862 00:29:55,510 --> 00:29:52,960 obfuscate the issue um i don't see how 863 00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:55,520 long term um once 864 00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:57,360 uh well now that the 865 00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,120 um 866 00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:01,600 the ndaa is entered into law with all 867 00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:04,240 the aspects of that gillibrand rubio and 868 00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:07,120 gallego put into it i don't see how long 869 00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:09,200 term um you can 870 00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:10,640 you're going to have to have you can 871 00:30:15,029 --> 00:30:12,880 have two departments coexisting together 872 00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:15,039 because uh principles principles of 873 00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:16,720 intelligence right is that you have to 874 00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,600 have uh centralized control yeah and you 875 00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:21,600 have to have economy of effort so it 876 00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:23,039 doesn't make sense to have two different 877 00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:25,200 departments like covering the same thing 878 00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:26,480 now i know there's a lot of overlap 879 00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:27,679 between 880 00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:28,799 um 881 00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:31,679 the us intelligence community and 882 00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:33,360 between the us intelligence community 883 00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:34,720 and the wider kind of like you know 884 00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:36,559 western intelligence community but this 885 00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,559 really doesn't make sense long term um 886 00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:40,880 but what remains to be seen is whether 887 00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:43,360 you know how um 888 00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:45,120 you know the department proposed by the 889 00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:46,880 pentagon will be in conflict with what 890 00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,080 has been mandated by law by the ndaa and 891 00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:52,399 i think the ndaa you know has to win out 892 00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:55,840 and i think long term if the dod and 893 00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:57,919 intelligence community try to obfuscate 894 00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:58,960 then they're really going to come 895 00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:01,200 unstuck with uh you know congressional 896 00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:03,120 people because you know like people like 897 00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:04,799 gillibrand they put their life and soul 898 00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,559 into this effectively and they put their 899 00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:08,159 reputations into this and i don't think 900 00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:09,440 that they're going to tolerate any kind 901 00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:11,919 of obvious obfuscation long term but at 902 00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:14,080 the same time there is a lot of 903 00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:16,320 potential in a bureaucracy 904 00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,360 to obfuscate uh to not to to follow they 905 00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,440 can follow the letter of the law but 906 00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:23,039 maybe not the spirit of the law and 907 00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,960 that's what concerns me 908 00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:26,880 it comes across a little bit when it was 909 00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:28,480 announced like if you're watching dealer 910 00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:31,760 and audio and you're holding all the big 911 00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:33,200 numbers there 912 00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:35,120 and only one of the little blue boxes is 913 00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,720 left and the dealer's called up and 914 00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:38,640 offered you 50 pounds 915 00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:40,159 yeah and you've still got you've got all 916 00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,840 the cards and you could have all of this 917 00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:43,440 but you know why not just settle for 918 00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:44,240 this 919 00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,080 and it just seemed to kind of be a 920 00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:49,120 pretty poor attempt i can uh sideswipe 921 00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:51,760 on the subject as well and like you say 922 00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:53,919 i don't see why both offices couldn't 923 00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:56,480 exist for a short period of time but it 924 00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,080 makes no sense surely at all and for me 925 00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:02,000 susan goes response and like i say i was 926 00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:04,799 having a very adult um and reasoned 927 00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:06,799 debate with roger glassell about it i 928 00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:08,480 didn't think her responses to him 929 00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:11,519 indicated that aoi msg was going to be 930 00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:13,679 the office and only that it would be 931 00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:17,120 compliant as to what the ndea was was 932 00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:18,640 looking to achieve 933 00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:20,080 but that doesn't mean that what they're 934 00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:21,440 looking to do through the gila brand 935 00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:23,600 amendment and others isn't going to come 936 00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:25,760 into effect and be the main office so i 937 00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,960 don't think people have got anything to 938 00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:28,559 worry about there no doubt there'll be 939 00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,080 some positioning in the background going 940 00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:32,399 on but i'm sure the i'm sure the good 941 00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:35,760 guys went out in that one in the end 942 00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:37,519 yeah i think a big point for me and i 943 00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:39,120 pointed this out on unidentified 944 00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:42,240 celebrity review i was like well um rich 945 00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:44,799 hoffman from the scu you know i'm an scu 946 00:32:48,870 --> 00:32:47,360 member um he pinged me a message on 947 00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,880 signal he was like oh you know he goes 948 00:32:52,389 --> 00:32:50,320 uh you know we've been putting the 949 00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,399 amendment and you know scu is gonna have 950 00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,399 uh you know candidates you know we're 951 00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:56,000 gonna if it passes law we're gonna be 952 00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:58,000 able to be put forward for this uh this 953 00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,360 overarching you know committee this 954 00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,679 advisory committee and to me 955 00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:03,519 uh that was a big kind of blow in the 956 00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:04,880 advisory committee and it would have 957 00:33:09,669 --> 00:33:07,600 included like scu it would have included 958 00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:09,679 um you know galileo project it would 959 00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,240 have included uh nasa amongst others 960 00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:14,559 right so if your dod and your 961 00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:16,159 intelligence be due why would you have a 962 00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:17,600 problem with 963 00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:19,519 security cleared 964 00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:21,519 uh professionals and then also there's 965 00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:23,360 the paragraph that says you know that 966 00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:27,120 dod and the ic can accept advice from uh 967 00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:30,240 you know non-dod and non-you know i see 968 00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:31,840 uh security cleared professionals why 969 00:33:35,350 --> 00:33:33,360 would you have a problem with that and i 970 00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:35,360 reached out to chris mellon about this 971 00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:37,120 he was gonna like no comment but i re i 972 00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:38,880 reached out to somebody else who was 973 00:33:43,509 --> 00:33:40,559 intimately involved the process and they 974 00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:43,519 said the fact that melon and elizondo 975 00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:44,799 were involved 976 00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:46,960 and that were likely to be uh basically 977 00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:49,519 elected by the galileo project 978 00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,399 to 979 00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:52,320 be on this advisory board that didn't 980 00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:55,039 help and that the dod and the ic didn't 981 00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:57,760 want to have any more uh 982 00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:59,840 you know any more supervision whatsoever 983 00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,799 they didn't want to have any more 984 00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:02,159 accountability 985 00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:03,519 and it's like well 986 00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:04,720 and the source also said they were 987 00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:06,080 worried about security issues but if 988 00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:07,440 your security cleared because it said 989 00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:09,200 minimum security clearance but if you're 990 00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,720 going to be if you if you're going to be 991 00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:12,240 advising and with this and the jilly 992 00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:14,000 brand amendment it said it would advise 993 00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:16,079 on uh basically 994 00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:18,480 uh you know the you know using sensors 995 00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:21,040 and how to uh you know basically use 996 00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:23,599 your intelligence assets to capture uap 997 00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:25,679 uh not in a physical sense 998 00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:27,359 but you would have to be cleared like to 999 00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:29,359 probably top secret tci 1000 00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:31,440 to have access to those satellites and 1001 00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:33,280 those platforms right 1002 00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:34,639 why would you have a problem if people 1003 00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:36,320 are security cleared you would only have 1004 00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:38,159 a problem if your dod and ic if you 1005 00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:40,800 don't want more oversight 1006 00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:42,800 who would you have on those boards if 1007 00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:44,399 you were part of that committee and 1008 00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:46,879 ultimately frank milburn could sign it 1009 00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:49,280 off who would you be picking would it be 1010 00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:50,960 louis elizondo and chris melon or would 1011 00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:52,879 you be looking at others who are maybe 1012 00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:55,040 nameless at this point 1013 00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,800 no i mean uh 1014 00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:58,560 chris would definitely be on there lou 1015 00:35:02,310 --> 00:35:00,079 would definitely be on there 1016 00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:02,320 uh avilab would have definitely be on 1017 00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:03,119 there 1018 00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:05,200 uh i mean i i had no problem with that 1019 00:35:08,069 --> 00:35:06,640 with a scientific committee i mean like 1020 00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:08,079 you know why shouldn't nasa be on it why 1021 00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:09,760 shouldn't galileo project be on it why 1022 00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:12,000 shouldn't scu be on it you know i'd want 1023 00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:16,240 uh you know uh robert powell um from scu 1024 00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:20,800 rich hoffman to be there as well yeah so 1025 00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:21,760 i mean 1026 00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:23,359 you know they're american patriots 1027 00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:24,320 anyway it's not like they're gonna 1028 00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:26,320 divulge secrets to the russians 1029 00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:27,680 it's like and they would have to pass a 1030 00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:28,800 security clearance if they don't have 1031 00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:30,000 already and i know that rich hoffman 1032 00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:31,200 already has it so you already work for 1033 00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,160 the uk 1034 00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,640 sorry for the us military so there's 1035 00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:36,160 absolutely no reason to exclude them 1036 00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:37,760 whatever and that's just another example 1037 00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:40,160 of obvious obfuscation 1038 00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:41,839 as someone who worked in intelligence 1039 00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,480 themselves louis elizondo has a book 1040 00:35:49,829 --> 00:35:46,800 coming out next year that's very much 1041 00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:49,839 looked forward to and well publicized 1042 00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,200 how difficult can that be when someone 1043 00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:55,200 like lou may or may not be elected into 1044 00:36:00,550 --> 00:35:58,560 a position within this you know board or 1045 00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,560 all this office is that something that 1046 00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,560 could that could handle that or can that 1047 00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:04,240 still be released obviously it's going 1048 00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:05,680 to be vetted 1049 00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:08,720 how does that affect his position 1050 00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:09,760 well i don't know because i haven't read 1051 00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,560 the book yet but um what i've seen of 1052 00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:14,160 lose so far i don't see why it's going 1053 00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:16,560 to hinder anything that he's done 1054 00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:20,480 um i have to say from the start i've uh 1055 00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:22,160 i wouldn't say like i'm a believer but 1056 00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:24,079 i've always had uh confidence in louis 1057 00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:25,920 elizondo i mean you know he's been 1058 00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:27,680 slagged down rotten by a lot of people 1059 00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:29,200 and i have that i have been as well 1060 00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:31,440 right for i've got a counterintelligence 1061 00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:33,359 background and so does he so i kind of 1062 00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:35,200 understand where he's coming from 1063 00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:37,280 uh but i don't think um 1064 00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:39,200 i believe yeah you know he has to keep 1065 00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:40,400 certain things back 1066 00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:42,560 um because he as i do because he has a 1067 00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:44,800 security clearance to maintain uh just 1068 00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:47,520 as i have security os 1069 00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:50,000 uh that i have to maintain and also 1070 00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:51,040 you know the fact that i would never 1071 00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:52,880 betray my country and he's the same he's 1072 00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:54,240 an american patriot i'm a british 1073 00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:56,000 patriot and 1074 00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:57,200 you know we would never do anything to 1075 00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:58,400 compromise the security of our 1076 00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:00,240 respective countries nor of you know the 1077 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:03,119 joint alliance that we have um 1078 00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:04,320 so 1079 00:37:08,470 --> 00:37:05,680 i can't say because i haven't read his 1080 00:37:09,990 --> 00:37:08,480 book yet um but uh 1081 00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:10,000 i hope he goes from strength to strength 1082 00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:12,000 and i'm i'm a fan of his and i'm a fan 1083 00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:14,000 of uh of chris melons but let's not be 1084 00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,760 in any doubt here right i've said from 1085 00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,599 the start that uh 1086 00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:18,880 uh 1087 00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:21,760 lou and chris they're not about um 1088 00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:24,880 eop transparency per se yeah they are 1089 00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:26,800 uh but they're not about uh hanging all 1090 00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:28,320 out you know hanging it all out on the 1091 00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:31,040 on the washing line okay these guys they 1092 00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:33,680 want to see this is my personal opinion 1093 00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:36,240 based on the paper that i wrote based on 1094 00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:38,560 your and uh and jade and jay's 1095 00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:40,640 interviews with zondo 1096 00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:43,200 elizonda used the very terms himself he 1097 00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,599 said once congress are interested in uap 1098 00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:47,760 then i think it will be a fet accompli 1099 00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:49,680 which is a title of my paper that they 1100 00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:51,839 will want to have a uap project they 1101 00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:56,079 want lou and chris want to have uh 1102 00:38:03,270 --> 00:37:59,359 they want to have like a 23 a 25 000 a 1103 00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:03,280 20 25 or 30 billion dollar project which 1104 00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:05,200 uh unites all the different special 1105 00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:07,280 access programs under one roof because 1106 00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:08,960 eric davis has considered consistently 1107 00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:11,760 said you reach these stumbling blocks 1108 00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:13,520 you reach these bottlenecks 1109 00:38:16,710 --> 00:38:14,960 in a special access program because you 1110 00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:16,720 can't talk to anybody outside them and i 1111 00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:18,960 believe that lou and chris 1112 00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:20,480 uh they want to get access to these 1113 00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,920 special access programs they want to 1114 00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:23,760 unite it under one roof in a big project 1115 00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:25,680 because for 70 years there hasn't been 1116 00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,760 enough progress according to them and 1117 00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:29,520 they are american patriots and they want 1118 00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:30,640 to get ahead of the russians and the 1119 00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:33,520 chinese just as uh you know dr eric 1120 00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,400 davis said by 2040 we need to have our 1121 00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:37,920 engineering and physics approach 1122 00:38:41,589 --> 00:38:39,680 approximating the capabilities of the 1123 00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:41,599 tic tacs 1124 00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:43,280 and i think this is all well documented 1125 00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:44,320 now 1126 00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:45,680 sure do you think that's the right way 1127 00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:47,680 to go about this then as to 1128 00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:49,839 to do that have that big project get it 1129 00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:52,079 all under one roof but also i'd like to 1130 00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:55,200 ask you is that benefiting the us and 1131 00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:57,440 the us only or does that still 1132 00:39:01,510 --> 00:39:00,720 ultimately help humanity as a whole 1133 00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,520 okay 1134 00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:03,200 let's uh break that down into two 1135 00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:04,800 questions yeah ultimate is going to help 1136 00:39:09,829 --> 00:39:08,320 the u.s um as i put in my first paper um 1137 00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:09,839 quoting harry reid 1138 00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:11,839 he said you know the development of atic 1139 00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:13,440 when he was talking about orsa but he 1140 00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:14,960 said you know this will benefit the dod 1141 00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:17,359 in ways as not yet you know 1142 00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:20,720 unimaginable uh to uh perpetuate 1143 00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:22,720 american uh you know preeminence and 1144 00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:24,640 dominance on the world sphere and i'm 1145 00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:25,839 all for that because at the end of the 1146 00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:26,560 day 1147 00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:27,760 you know i don't want to be i don't want 1148 00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:29,280 to live in a world that's ruled by you 1149 00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:32,320 know russia china or north korea okay 1150 00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:33,280 um 1151 00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,560 the second part of that how can it help 1152 00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:36,800 humanity yeah sure i think there will be 1153 00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:39,040 uh spin-off technologies but i think 1154 00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,520 it's extremely dangerous to assume uh 1155 00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,520 that you know things like free energy or 1156 00:39:47,190 --> 00:39:45,680 auto or anti-gravity are automatically 1157 00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:47,200 going to be like disseminated into the 1158 00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:48,400 private sphere because i think they're 1159 00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:50,720 incredibly dangerous just as you would 1160 00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:52,880 not expect 1161 00:39:58,150 --> 00:39:56,320 you know the latest american icbm or 1162 00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,160 nuclear technology to be disseminated to 1163 00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,160 iran or north korea so why would you 1164 00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:02,800 expect the you know uap technology to be 1165 00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:05,119 disseminated to the world 1166 00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:06,880 i think it's a it's a very delicate 1167 00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:09,440 question look i i want to help humanity 1168 00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:11,440 and i would like to see you know every 1169 00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:12,880 indian village 1170 00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,920 uh 1171 00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:15,359 you know every village every poor 1172 00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:16,800 village in brazil 1173 00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:18,480 okay every poor village in africa with 1174 00:40:21,990 --> 00:40:19,920 like a free energy vice that would be 1175 00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:22,000 awesome and nobody has to pay for energy 1176 00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:23,440 but i just really don't think that's 1177 00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:24,960 going to happen 1178 00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,800 yeah i can appreciate that and it's one 1179 00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:28,640 of those it's blue sky thinking isn't it 1180 00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:30,800 that and dan and i discussed this on one 1181 00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:32,560 of the what-if episodes the day after 1182 00:40:37,109 --> 00:40:34,480 disclosure that people will still have 1183 00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:37,119 to go to work people will still be in 1184 00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:38,560 hospital ill 1185 00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:40,160 people will still run out of fuel there 1186 00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:41,520 will still be 1187 00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:43,280 holes in the ozone layer in places there 1188 00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:45,760 will still be climate issues it doesn't 1189 00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:47,680 change overnight if if at all within 1190 00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:49,680 decades i remember reading and i've 1191 00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:51,040 mentioned this i'm sure before on the 1192 00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:52,480 podcast years ago 1193 00:40:57,109 --> 00:40:54,480 that saddam hussein was buying up 1194 00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:57,119 playstation 2's and bulk because of the 1195 00:41:00,630 --> 00:40:59,359 processing power of them and i said yes 1196 00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:00,640 too so you're looking here they can have 1197 00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:03,839 2005 2006 i think um maybe even before 1198 00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:05,359 that um 1199 00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:07,680 to build some kind of supercomputer 1200 00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:09,440 and i'm sure there's an element of truth 1201 00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:10,640 within that with the processing 1202 00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,720 capabilities of these devices and what 1203 00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:14,800 we have now so you think like you say if 1204 00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:17,119 you put i remember also that phone 1205 00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:18,640 batteries wouldn't need charged if you 1206 00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:20,400 could put a tiny tiny tiny nuclear 1207 00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:22,319 device in each one but then what would 1208 00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:23,920 stop somebody buying a load or so uh 1209 00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:26,160 samsung's or iphones and blowing them up 1210 00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:27,599 and causing you know 1211 00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:29,680 a terrorist incident and it's just you 1212 00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:32,160 can't trust humans necessarily with that 1213 00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:34,720 technology can you on mass 1214 00:41:37,589 --> 00:41:36,720 well you know i've had hate comments for 1215 00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:37,599 this 1216 00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:38,960 uh for saying that you know things 1217 00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:41,440 shouldn't be divulged uh because 1218 00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:43,280 you know some people i'll be honest 1219 00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:44,640 they're pretty clueless 1220 00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:46,160 and they just go yeah you know let's let 1221 00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:47,520 it all hang out there 1222 00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:49,119 like you know all the technology and i'm 1223 00:41:52,950 --> 00:41:51,040 and the people that i speak to 1224 00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:52,960 are people you know geniuses like bob 1225 00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:54,319 mcguire right who work for the center 1226 00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:56,720 for defense analyses i talk to genius 1227 00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:58,640 level scientists like that people who've 1228 00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:01,280 been recruited uh by darpa by the center 1229 00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:03,680 for the defense analyses by the dod 1230 00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:06,400 recruited direct from school people who 1231 00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:08,079 have worked on uap technology and 1232 00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:10,160 they're going are you crazy 1233 00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:13,680 releasing uh you know free energy uh 1234 00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:15,440 just like onto 1235 00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:17,440 the open market 1236 00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:18,640 because 1237 00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:19,599 any 1238 00:42:23,990 --> 00:42:21,599 well-developed actor like hezbollah 1239 00:42:26,550 --> 00:42:24,000 which is a transnational criminal and uh 1240 00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:26,560 and terrorist actor with like billions 1241 00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:28,880 over the past two decades in in drug 1242 00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:31,760 money and illicit activities um and 1243 00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,160 their patron iran they could very easily 1244 00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,560 they don't stupid iran is not stupid 1245 00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:38,400 i've written extensive papers on iran 1246 00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:39,760 hezbollah are not stupid i've written 1247 00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:41,200 papers on them 1248 00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:42,640 they're not stupid they can get the 1249 00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:43,920 scientific knowledge they could turn 1250 00:42:47,349 --> 00:42:45,440 this free energy into the most 1251 00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:47,359 devastating uh 1252 00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:49,440 devastating weapon that would make a new 1253 00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:51,119 cl that would make nukes look like 1254 00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:53,680 firecrackers by comparison this is what 1255 00:42:59,910 --> 00:42:56,800 people that i talk to who are in uh the 1256 00:43:01,829 --> 00:42:59,920 uk sorry the u.s uh defense and 1257 00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:01,839 scientific community are telling me you 1258 00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:04,160 do not let free energy uh out into the 1259 00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:05,920 open sphere because humanity is not 1260 00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,920 ready for it it's like yes on the plus 1261 00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,839 side and you know they're humanitarians 1262 00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:11,760 they want to help people they want to 1263 00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:13,200 you know 1264 00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:14,640 make sure that the earth isn't being 1265 00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:17,200 destroyed to protect the ozone layer uh 1266 00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:18,160 you know 1267 00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,079 prevent climatic change all the rest of 1268 00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:22,480 it but humanity is not ready for this 1269 00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:24,000 kind of technology 1270 00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:26,160 it's i mean look we've barely scraped by 1271 00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:27,599 with nuclear technology it is the 1272 00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:29,599 americans have already used it on on on 1273 00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:30,319 the 1274 00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:34,240 we nearly come close to nuclear tech 1275 00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,160 catastrophe are we really ready to 1276 00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,640 unleash even more lethal technologies 1277 00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:40,800 like onto the world stage that's what 1278 00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:42,480 scares me 1279 00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:43,920 well i want to talk about some of the 1280 00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:45,839 language within the bill and it does 1281 00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:47,280 actually keep on topic of what we're 1282 00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:49,040 talking about um 1283 00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:50,960 physiological studies are mentioned 1284 00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:53,440 within the the language of the bill and 1285 00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:55,839 we were talking about things like havana 1286 00:44:01,510 --> 00:43:58,800 syndrome thomas winterton and others on 1287 00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:01,520 skinwalker ranch have reported havana 1288 00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:03,920 syndrome-like incidents thomas winterton 1289 00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:05,359 who is the chief superintendent of the 1290 00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:06,480 ranch 1291 00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:10,480 reported that as the the skin and skull 1292 00:44:14,950 --> 00:44:12,319 basically separated from his skull and 1293 00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:14,960 had a huge fluid layer and others who 1294 00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:16,480 have been on the ranch have also 1295 00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:17,839 reported things like this as well 1296 00:44:22,470 --> 00:44:20,240 haven't they frank that's a very uh 1297 00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:22,480 interesting question 1298 00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,359 um i was looking at uh gary nolan's uh 1299 00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:27,359 vice article yes 1300 00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,359 and it said um 1301 00:44:32,950 --> 00:44:30,960 vice asked him how does the impact of 1302 00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:32,960 electromagnetic frequencies factor into 1303 00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,280 your hypotheses about what exactly 1304 00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:37,200 transpired here 1305 00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:40,000 and uh dr gary allen replies with one of 1306 00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:41,119 the patients that happened on the 1307 00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,520 skinwalker ranch given how deep into 1308 00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:45,280 their brain the damage went we can 1309 00:44:49,510 --> 00:44:47,359 actually estimate the amount of energy 1310 00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,520 required in the electromagnetic wave 1311 00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,440 someone aimed at them we don't think 1312 00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,839 this is anything to do with uaps we 1313 00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:55,680 think that somehow some sort of state 1314 00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:57,680 actor and again related to havana 1315 00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:00,400 syndrome somehow yeah 1316 00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:07,030 several scientists 1317 00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:08,640 involved in 1318 00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,480 classified research 1319 00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:12,400 for the united states government and i 1320 00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:14,000 want to say here that 1321 00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,480 nothing they have told me is 1322 00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:18,000 you know is a state secret they haven't 1323 00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:19,920 told me anything classified 1324 00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:22,640 uh but i have established their bona 1325 00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:26,319 fides they know people that i know um 1326 00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:27,839 these people are 1327 00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,760 uh you know like genius level like dr 1328 00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:31,440 bob maguire okay 1329 00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:33,520 uh the type of people who are you know 1330 00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:35,040 recruited 1331 00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:36,800 uh from school 1332 00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:40,319 to work for agencies like nasa darpa the 1333 00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:41,680 dod 1334 00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:42,880 doe 1335 00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,839 and 1336 00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:44,880 um 1337 00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:48,640 they've told me that uh 1338 00:45:54,790 --> 00:45:51,440 uh there is hostile state activity 1339 00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:54,800 uh that utilizes uh portable 1340 00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:56,960 directed energy weapons uh to target 1341 00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:58,800 them and we're not talking acoustic 1342 00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:01,760 level um directed energy weapons uh 1343 00:46:04,630 --> 00:46:02,800 which is 1344 00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:04,640 what is commonly reported on in the 1345 00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:05,599 press 1346 00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:07,839 uh we're talking microwave energy which 1347 00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:09,440 literally fries you 1348 00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:11,359 and the 1349 00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:13,119 uh the effects that they've received 1350 00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,720 they've been they've been basically 1351 00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,400 critically damaged by microwave 1352 00:46:21,270 --> 00:46:18,960 radiation that has caused them traumatic 1353 00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:21,280 brain injury it's caused them uh you 1354 00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:23,520 know kind of like intestinal digestive 1355 00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:26,560 problems uh it's irradiated their skin 1356 00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:29,040 uh you know cancer 1357 00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:30,560 uh these are the types of issues and 1358 00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:33,359 they told me that uh you don't just have 1359 00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:37,200 now uh they said that uh state actors uh 1360 00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:38,400 principally like you know the russians 1361 00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:41,599 the chinese they don't even have to use 1362 00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:42,640 portable 1363 00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:45,040 directed energy weapons anymore i.e 1364 00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:48,400 those that can be carried in vehicles 1365 00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:50,319 now they can 1366 00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:52,480 they can basically hack your router they 1367 00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:54,960 can hack your phone and they can cause 1368 00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:57,280 frequent frequencies uh 1369 00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:59,680 that irradiate you and one of the 1370 00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:00,960 scientists they actually sent me a 1371 00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:05,040 picture of a a faraday cage um kind of 1372 00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:07,040 like envelope that they have which they 1373 00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:09,680 keep their mobile phone in because 1374 00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:10,800 they don't know when their phone is 1375 00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,960 going to be hacked 1376 00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:14,960 now that's pretty scary technology and 1377 00:47:19,109 --> 00:47:16,480 obviously we're not necessarily here 1378 00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:19,119 talking something non-human or exotic 1379 00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:21,839 but very much terrestrial 1380 00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:23,680 why do you think this sort of technology 1381 00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:26,800 is being used on on officials at places 1382 00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:29,200 like skinwalker ranch 1383 00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:31,280 well the one of the same sources told me 1384 00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:32,480 that uh 1385 00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:34,400 also they said that it could be a they 1386 00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:35,520 said that the 1387 00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:37,119 the former soviet union had some kind of 1388 00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,359 like scary this is this is their their 1389 00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:41,599 language some scary space-based based 1390 00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:44,000 weapons that could uh that could fire 1391 00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:45,599 directed energy weapons and actually if 1392 00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:47,839 you look at my first paper uh dr jack 1393 00:47:52,710 --> 00:47:50,000 sarfati talks about a 1394 00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,720 kind of like a wormhole a portal over 1395 00:47:57,109 --> 00:47:54,960 skin walker ranch that he said can be 1396 00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:57,119 used as like an uh 1397 00:48:01,910 --> 00:47:59,119 like a wormhole portal but he said it 1398 00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:01,920 could also be used as a kind of like a 1399 00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:05,599 wmd to fry people below with uh you know 1400 00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:07,599 electromagnetic radiation 1401 00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:08,480 um 1402 00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:10,000 the reason why 1403 00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:10,880 and 1404 00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:13,760 uh my sources have said um 1405 00:48:16,549 --> 00:48:14,800 if you're 1406 00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:16,559 awesome the advanced aerospace weapon 1407 00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:19,520 system applications program your dia and 1408 00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,440 you are trying to weaponize 1409 00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:23,119 various phenomena on the ranch because 1410 00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:24,960 ddia were there okay 1411 00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:26,960 i've spoken to a couple of insiders from 1412 00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,559 there uh 1413 00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:30,960 they were first concerned with 1414 00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:32,640 are there threats to the united states 1415 00:48:36,309 --> 00:48:34,480 okay because you've got like ufos you've 1416 00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:36,319 got things coming through portals this 1417 00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:38,079 is all well established okay so that 1418 00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,440 could be a potential threat something 1419 00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:41,280 that's coming into your airspace through 1420 00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:42,960 a portal you don't know what it is and 1421 00:48:46,829 --> 00:48:45,920 also you know dogs being fried um you're 1422 00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:46,839 talking 1423 00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:51,280 um cryptids that are um you know immune 1424 00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:53,920 to uh you know ballistic weapon 1425 00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,000 technology that can be shot at and like 1426 00:49:00,309 --> 00:48:57,920 they don't die like they regenerate 1427 00:49:01,510 --> 00:49:00,319 right um so you're talking a lot of 1428 00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:01,520 potential threats there so you'd want to 1429 00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:03,520 understand what other potential threats 1430 00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:05,760 okay number one you'd want to understand 1431 00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:07,760 how to counter those threats and number 1432 00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:10,000 three as dia you would want to 1433 00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:11,040 understand 1434 00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:11,920 how 1435 00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:14,079 uh you know i can 1436 00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,480 weaponize uh those technologies and 1437 00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:18,319 those phenomena okay that's thinking 1438 00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:20,800 from you know as a military man 1439 00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:21,680 so 1440 00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:24,559 adversaries would have uh an interest in 1441 00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:27,440 disrupting that and that's what uh 1442 00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,720 two of my sources tell me that um 1443 00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,480 adversaries like russia for example 1444 00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:35,040 would have an interest in disrupting uh 1445 00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:37,680 those kind of advancements and you know 1446 00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,760 if you look if we look at um 1447 00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:41,760 you know i was in iraq right 1448 00:49:45,990 --> 00:49:43,920 i got a very good understanding of of 1449 00:49:47,589 --> 00:49:46,000 what adversaries are trying to do 1450 00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:47,599 um and 1451 00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:50,000 if you look at what uh the americans and 1452 00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:52,160 the israelis were doing to the iranians 1453 00:49:57,270 --> 00:49:55,119 in in in 2010 1454 00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:57,280 they introduced a stuxnet virus right to 1455 00:50:01,990 --> 00:50:00,240 make the iranian centrifuges uh 1456 00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,000 have excessive revolutions that they 1457 00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:04,559 blew up recently uh the israelis have 1458 00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:06,079 assassinated america well actually going 1459 00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:07,680 back to 2010 the israelis have been 1460 00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,000 assassinating israeli scientists right 1461 00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:12,240 in complex attacks they've been stealing 1462 00:50:16,549 --> 00:50:14,880 uh israeli sorry they've been stealing 1463 00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:16,559 uh iranian 1464 00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:18,720 information 1465 00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:19,520 so 1466 00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:22,559 why would not adversaries do that to 1467 00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:25,040 uap technology and people working on uap 1468 00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:27,200 programs because 1469 00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:28,720 you're as an ad 1470 00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:30,160 from an adversarial point of view the 1471 00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:31,440 first thing you want to do you'd want to 1472 00:50:34,710 --> 00:50:33,119 try and infiltrate the networks right to 1473 00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:34,720 get access to 1474 00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:35,920 the level of advancement that the 1475 00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:39,040 americans have if you can't do that then 1476 00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:41,599 second best default option is then you 1477 00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:43,359 want to take out the scientists who are 1478 00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:45,440 involved in that research 1479 00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:46,880 does that make sense 1480 00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:48,160 yes 1481 00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:50,720 is it is it a dire commentary on the 1482 00:50:55,990 --> 00:50:52,640 human condition that 1483 00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:56,000 superpowers like the us china russia and 1484 00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:57,920 others you mentioned israel 1485 00:51:02,549 --> 00:50:59,920 countries like iran north korea or 1486 00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:02,559 whoever else any of these who have that 1487 00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:05,119 sort of knowledge or confirmed knowledge 1488 00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,680 of a non-human presence and non-human 1489 00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:08,960 technology 1490 00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:10,400 they're still 1491 00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:12,640 at odds with each other from a military 1492 00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:15,280 point of view trying to jostle for power 1493 00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,549 yeah i think it's a i think it is a 1494 00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:22,400 commentary on the human condition 1495 00:51:26,309 --> 00:51:24,480 um you know and i've said this before i 1496 00:51:27,990 --> 00:51:26,319 mean if i were 1497 00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,000 if i were 1498 00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:30,480 an extra terrestrial presence or an 1499 00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:32,400 ultra-terrestrial presence 1500 00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:34,000 and i were looking at the human race 1501 00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:36,800 right i'd be looking at um 1502 00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:39,359 a race of beings basically monkeys with 1503 00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:42,480 like nukes and you know uh sophisticated 1504 00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:43,920 weaponry that are advancing 1505 00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:46,319 exponentially and are now 1506 00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:47,680 launching themselves into the outer 1507 00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:49,359 reaches of the universe 1508 00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:51,520 would i really want to share 1509 00:51:56,230 --> 00:51:53,920 my planet and my space with them no i 1510 00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:56,240 wouldn't because humans are inherently 1511 00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:58,720 violent you only have to look at 1512 00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:00,240 uh you know what we've done to each 1513 00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:02,240 other i mean you know the nazis did the 1514 00:52:08,870 --> 00:52:06,000 jews the kimarus you know uh stalin 1515 00:52:10,470 --> 00:52:08,880 hitler whatever you know we have done or 1516 00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:10,480 the inquisition the middle ages you know 1517 00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:11,680 and the things that the europeans have 1518 00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:13,599 done to each other you only or the 1519 00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:14,720 things that you know the europeans have 1520 00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:16,559 done to the the indigenous species the 1521 00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:19,200 indigenous inhabitants of uh you know 1522 00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:21,760 north american south america right 1523 00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:23,520 humans always screw things up wherever 1524 00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:25,040 they go we're like locusts we go from 1525 00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:26,640 one place to another we gobble up 1526 00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:28,480 resources and we screw whoever's in our 1527 00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:30,240 way because we're greedy 1528 00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:32,640 so would you really want to share space 1529 00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:34,160 with us especially when we're advancing 1530 00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:35,359 really really rapidly that's the way 1531 00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:37,119 that i look at it but i think yeah it is 1532 00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:39,040 a it's a dire commentary on the human 1533 00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:40,720 condition i mean the fact that okay i 1534 00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,800 was in the uk military 1535 00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:44,720 elizondo was in the american military 1536 00:52:48,309 --> 00:52:46,800 the fact that we have different human 1537 00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,319 tribes and that we have to have 1538 00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:50,160 militaries to defend our particular 1539 00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:52,240 tribes is a commentary on the human 1540 00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:54,400 species 1541 00:52:57,430 --> 00:52:55,839 i'm going to take that conversation 1542 00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:57,440 forward in the listener questions 1543 00:53:01,750 --> 00:52:59,680 section so for anyone shouting at me to 1544 00:53:02,870 --> 00:53:01,760 follow up on that i will be don't worry 1545 00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:02,880 but i just want to finish off does that 1546 00:53:06,069 --> 00:53:04,319 make sense 1547 00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:06,079 yes it does absolutely absolutely and 1548 00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:07,440 i've got a few things that i am going to 1549 00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:09,520 follow up with you on but i want to just 1550 00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:11,119 say a lot of people a lot of people have 1551 00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:12,640 like you know um sort of sent me like 1552 00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:14,160 you know crappy messages or whatever 1553 00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:16,319 because they think i'm kind of like some 1554 00:53:21,510 --> 00:53:19,760 uh dark deep space actor but actually 1555 00:53:23,109 --> 00:53:21,520 i spent a lot of my time when i was in 1556 00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:23,119 iraq working for oil and gas companies 1557 00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:24,880 like you know vaccinating kids this 1558 00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:26,480 isn't to say like you know frank is like 1559 00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:28,079 a great guy or whatever but like i've 1560 00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:29,839 seen the human condition i've seen the 1561 00:53:33,270 --> 00:53:31,359 human condition when people don't have 1562 00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:33,280 access to vaccines people don't have 1563 00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:35,200 access to medical care people don't have 1564 00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:37,280 access to regular food but i was in a 1565 00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:38,960 position to do something about it and 1566 00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:41,680 i've seen the results of genocide on the 1567 00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:43,839 ground i saw what the iraqis did to the 1568 00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:46,319 kurds right the the iraqis they 1569 00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:48,319 exterminated the kurds right in northern 1570 00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:50,240 iraq i saw that with you know i didn't 1571 00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:52,400 see the extermination when i i saw the 1572 00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:54,160 villages that were destroyed i spent 1573 00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:56,400 three years of my life there so i'm 1574 00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:59,440 intimately acquainted with uh the the 1575 00:54:03,829 --> 00:54:01,680 very poorer aspects the darkest aspects 1576 00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:03,839 of the human condition 1577 00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:05,599 and you can understand why any other 1578 00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:08,240 species out there watching us especially 1579 00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:09,040 one 1580 00:54:13,190 --> 00:54:11,520 or or several species if they can view 1581 00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:13,200 time in a different way and they're 1582 00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:15,280 looking at our history of the last 2000 1583 00:54:19,349 --> 00:54:17,280 years or more and they're looking along 1584 00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:19,359 at different timeline or time points 1585 00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:21,200 they're going this doesn't get any 1586 00:54:24,790 --> 00:54:22,960 better as you go along here they are 1587 00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:24,800 constantly killing each other and wiping 1588 00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:26,640 each other out the technology gets 1589 00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:29,520 better but they don't and like you say 1590 00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:32,240 that the idea that oh if we get uap 1591 00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:34,079 technology for the good of humanity 1592 00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:35,599 everything will be fine and you're 1593 00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:37,359 looking go well at what point in our 1594 00:54:43,190 --> 00:54:39,920 technological advances have things got 1595 00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:43,200 better for us as a species as a whole 1596 00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:45,680 and it hasn't it's still very sporadic 1597 00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:47,359 and spread out as to who benefits from 1598 00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:49,040 what 1599 00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:50,400 yeah i mean there's also another aspect 1600 00:54:53,589 --> 00:54:51,440 to that 1601 00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,599 if you're looking at the you know uh you 1602 00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:55,520 know the human species of being highly 1603 00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:58,319 adaptable at warfare you look at 1876 1604 00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:01,440 right when the the brits went into zulu 1605 00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:03,280 land right from south africa and they 1606 00:55:07,030 --> 00:55:04,720 thought yeah we're just gonna like roll 1607 00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:07,040 straight over the zulus and the the 1608 00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:08,480 brits got absolutely hammered at the 1609 00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:11,040 battle of isla dwana uh four days later 1610 00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:12,319 there was the battle of rorke's drift 1611 00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:13,760 which is the most glorious action in the 1612 00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:16,400 history of the british army where 120 1613 00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:19,359 brits south wales borders held off a 1614 00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:21,839 force of 3 000 zulus but the fact is 1615 00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,559 that 1616 00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:24,559 zulus in the battle of island wanna four 1617 00:55:28,390 --> 00:55:25,920 days before 1618 00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:28,400 they had like spears and shields and 1619 00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:31,520 they annihilated 1200 brits who had 1620 00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:33,839 cannons and the most uh you know the 1621 00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:36,160 most advanced uh repeating rifles in the 1622 00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:38,319 world at the time so if you were an 1623 00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:39,680 extraterrestrial species you'd be 1624 00:55:43,829 --> 00:55:41,760 looking and going hang on uh even when 1625 00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:43,839 these guys are low tech they can still 1626 00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:46,880 defeat other humans who are high-tech 1627 00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,480 yeah um 1628 00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:50,079 it's like you say the human condition is 1629 00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,559 a very very strange and complex thing i 1630 00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:54,480 want to also ask you about um the 1631 00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:56,319 language in the bill it does mention 1632 00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:57,920 working with allies 1633 00:56:00,950 --> 00:56:00,079 now you have mentioned the five eyes 1634 00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:00,960 group 1635 00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:02,880 are there any other countries you think 1636 00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:04,319 would be some of the first to come 1637 00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,319 forward to work with the united states 1638 00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:08,880 or maybe any surprise contenders to to 1639 00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:10,640 broach this subject 1640 00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:12,640 well the first key one will be brazil 1641 00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:14,000 right in south america because the 1642 00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:15,440 americans have always had a very close 1643 00:56:20,150 --> 00:56:17,920 relationship with the brazilians and you 1644 00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:20,160 can see that in kolaras and you can see 1645 00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:22,480 that in various uh ufo 1646 00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:24,480 uh encounters that the brazilians have 1647 00:56:28,150 --> 00:56:26,000 had i mean the americans they support 1648 00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:28,160 the brazilians as they supported other 1649 00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:30,160 south american countries when they were 1650 00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:32,160 still in like you know deep dark uh 1651 00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:33,680 military dictatorship the americans 1652 00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:35,200 supported them just for the simple fact 1653 00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:37,359 that they were anti-soviet um there's an 1654 00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:38,960 increasing american relationship now 1655 00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:40,400 with um 1656 00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:42,720 with uh the indians who are also you 1657 00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:44,960 know technologically advanced country 1658 00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:46,960 first increasing um you know there's 1659 00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:47,920 always been 1660 00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:49,599 cooperation with taiwan which is another 1661 00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:51,280 military military advanced country with 1662 00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:52,720 japan as well 1663 00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:54,000 so 1664 00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,000 i would look apart from nato apart from 1665 00:57:00,789 --> 00:56:59,040 five eyes i would be looking to brazil 1666 00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:00,799 india japan 1667 00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:03,520 taiwan south korea 1668 00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:06,480 okay singapore as key countries that the 1669 00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:10,160 americans would cooperate with on on uap 1670 00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:12,559 all those countries have ha have uh have 1671 00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:14,960 uh have uh intelligence and defense uh 1672 00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:16,720 relationships either formalized or 1673 00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:17,920 informal with the amount of the united 1674 00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:19,440 states 1675 00:57:24,069 --> 00:57:21,760 and also it mentions within the bill uh 1676 00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:24,079 capture and exploit the technology which 1677 00:57:28,230 --> 00:57:26,079 is a very suggestive comment and it gets 1678 00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:28,240 the mind and the imagination going we 1679 00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:30,319 are past the question already of are 1680 00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,440 they real 1681 00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:33,520 do you think or actually do you think 1682 00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,680 it's a pure question how far do you 1683 00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:37,920 think we've already attempted to exploit 1684 00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:40,720 the technology that we may already have 1685 00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:42,240 i'm told 1686 00:57:47,430 --> 00:57:46,240 by the scientists that i mentioned 1687 00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:47,440 earlier 1688 00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:49,280 and i said again that they haven't told 1689 00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:51,040 me anything classified but i'm told that 1690 00:57:55,109 --> 00:57:53,119 uh the united states 1691 00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:55,119 and probably the uk because like i said 1692 00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:57,440 before ba systems is dug in deeper than 1693 00:58:01,829 --> 00:58:00,079 alabama tick with the americans um 1694 00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:01,839 that the americans are 20 years away and 1695 00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:04,240 that kind of fits in with what uh dr 1696 00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:06,480 eric davis said um 1697 00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:09,280 in his april 2020 interview with 1698 00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:11,359 alejandra rojas uh when he's talking 1699 00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:13,040 about you know we need to have our 1700 00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:15,680 physics and engineering you know in in 1701 00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:19,599 uh 2040 up to where the tic tacs 1702 00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:21,839 uh in case they turn around and decide 1703 00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:24,079 to be a threat so 1704 00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:26,000 uh that kind of fits with what uh dr 1705 00:58:29,430 --> 00:58:27,920 eric davis says and that fits with what 1706 00:58:32,470 --> 00:58:29,440 uh my 1707 00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:32,480 uh sources have been telling me i'm told 1708 00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:34,720 that they already have um 1709 00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:36,640 not five observable craft but they have 1710 00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:39,119 uh you know like triangles uh what some 1711 00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:41,599 people refer to as tr3b or although i 1712 00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:43,920 don't really like that nomenclature and 1713 00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:46,880 uh i talked to my colleague um 1714 00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:49,200 david mahler uh he's an expert on 1715 00:58:54,549 --> 00:58:51,680 triangle ufos and he's at the scu as 1716 00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:54,559 well uh he doesn't like tr3b but i'm 1717 00:59:00,870 --> 00:58:58,960 told that uh by my sources they've seen 1718 00:59:03,430 --> 00:59:00,880 these kind of triangles this kind of 1719 00:59:05,349 --> 00:59:03,440 technology the americans have um but 1720 00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:05,359 they tell me that it's uh it's still 1721 00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:07,200 imperfect and it's still being worked on 1722 00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:09,280 and to get true five observable 1723 00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,640 technology it's gonna take another 20 1724 00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:12,319 years 1725 00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:13,520 and that's why 1726 00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:15,920 that's why uh you know the interview 1727 00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:18,960 that you did with elizondo and uh jay at 1728 00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:21,520 project unity and when you know elizondo 1729 00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:24,720 said to jay um you know once congress is 1730 00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:26,720 interested in the uap issue it will be a 1731 00:59:31,349 --> 00:59:30,079 feta complete to give funding for a huge 1732 00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:31,359 project that kind of puts it in 1733 00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:33,520 perspective 1734 00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:35,119 why do you think all this is happening 1735 00:59:40,470 --> 00:59:38,079 now why and so publicly as well has 1736 00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:40,480 something triggered this happening or 1737 00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:41,920 was it simply 1738 00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:44,240 lou left his job and decided himself to 1739 00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:46,720 come out is this all one man's one man's 1740 00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,720 job 1741 00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:50,400 i think it's a number of things i think 1742 00:59:59,430 --> 00:59:52,319 it's um 1743 01:00:01,349 --> 00:59:59,440 if you look at uh harry reid's 2009 1744 01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:01,359 letter i think that was very very 1745 01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,839 decisive it was like you know this is 1746 01:00:06,710 --> 01:00:05,440 where we need to be 1747 01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:06,720 and if you look at that letter there's a 1748 01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:08,640 lot of very very interesting things in 1749 01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:10,559 there uh people should go back and 1750 01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:12,240 revisit that letter 1751 01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:15,359 um i think it's uh uh lou i said you 1752 01:00:18,789 --> 01:00:17,200 know lou and uh 1753 01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:18,799 and chris mellon they they want to 1754 01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:20,640 basically give a wake-up call and they 1755 01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:22,960 give them that wake-up call to congress 1756 01:00:26,549 --> 01:00:25,280 um but also as well i think it's been 1757 01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:26,559 fueled by 1758 01:00:31,430 --> 01:00:29,359 you know social media the fact that um 1759 01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:31,440 you know there's a you know 1760 01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:33,280 ufo twitter is pretty small but it's 1761 01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:35,680 it's very very vocal and the fact that 1762 01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:37,040 this has become 1763 01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:38,720 a kind of like a national international 1764 01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:40,640 issue is because of social media as well 1765 01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:42,960 i think the time is that you can't it's 1766 01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:44,720 getting very more and more difficult to 1767 01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:47,760 hide um you know these issues away from 1768 01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:49,520 the public especially when you know 1769 01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:51,359 instantly i mean if you look back in the 1770 01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:54,400 1950s you had various ufo organizations 1771 01:00:57,349 --> 01:00:55,680 and they used to send out like you know 1772 01:01:00,390 --> 01:00:57,359 email they used to send out like letters 1773 01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:00,400 right like uh snail mail letters 1774 01:01:03,589 --> 01:01:02,000 uh and they used to do conferences but 1775 01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:03,599 it was all by snail mail and they may be 1776 01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:05,040 phoning people up 1777 01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:07,200 now it's like instantaneous somebody 1778 01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:09,359 discovers something like you know uh 1779 01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:11,280 you know dd johnson right on twitter and 1780 01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:13,040 he just puts it out straight there and 1781 01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:14,799 immediately you've got like you know any 1782 01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:16,160 number of people in the world can follow 1783 01:01:20,549 --> 01:01:17,760 that 1784 01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:20,559 it's uh exponential use of uh 1785 01:01:23,270 --> 01:01:21,440 um 1786 01:01:25,109 --> 01:01:23,280 you know social medias and intelligence 1787 01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:25,119 resource effectively and and it's making 1788 01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:27,599 it very much much harder for 1789 01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:29,680 uh the us to cover this up and also you 1790 01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:31,839 know you've got guys like you know um 1791 01:01:36,710 --> 01:01:34,240 you know greenwood the black vault who's 1792 01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:36,720 just like relentless uh with like the 1793 01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:37,680 foyer 1794 01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,480 and then uh you have issues where it 1795 01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:43,040 looks like uh you know the 1796 01:01:48,150 --> 01:01:46,079 um the dod uh freedom of information act 1797 01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:48,160 people who act you know the people who 1798 01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:49,920 are who are basically processing the 1799 01:01:55,589 --> 01:01:52,240 foyers it looks like they are trying to 1800 01:01:57,349 --> 01:01:55,599 obfuscate um the fire process 1801 01:01:59,829 --> 01:01:57,359 all that goes across social media and 1802 01:02:01,190 --> 01:01:59,839 national media very very quickly 1803 01:02:03,829 --> 01:02:01,200 it's becoming increasingly difficult to 1804 01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:03,839 hide these things 1805 01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:06,000 now just before we get to listener 1806 01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:07,440 questions i've got one more thing i want 1807 01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:08,960 to talk to you about because like you've 1808 01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:10,079 talked about 1809 01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:11,839 exponentially increasing technologies 1810 01:02:16,390 --> 01:02:13,760 and the difference it's making social 1811 01:02:19,589 --> 01:02:16,400 media the james webb telescope as we 1812 01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,599 speak is unfurling its solar shield and 1813 01:02:23,029 --> 01:02:21,520 it's incredible that the 1814 01:02:25,270 --> 01:02:23,039 the achievement just to get that thing 1815 01:02:26,710 --> 01:02:25,280 into space let alone the hundred things 1816 01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:26,720 that have to happen now it's in space 1817 01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:29,280 for it to become fully operational 1818 01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:31,359 my co-host dan referred to it as going 1819 01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:34,559 from vhs to 4k dvds and we're going to 1820 01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:36,480 see a whole new whole new lake spectrum 1821 01:02:39,589 --> 01:02:37,359 as well 1822 01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:39,599 do you think the james webb telescope is 1823 01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,359 going to play a part in finding other 1824 01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:43,680 sources of life in the universe or are 1825 01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:45,839 we going to find that closer to home 1826 01:02:51,029 --> 01:02:48,160 with organizations like the galileo 1827 01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:51,039 project and scu 1828 01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:53,200 uh look i'm not a scientist i can't 1829 01:02:57,190 --> 01:02:54,400 really say 1830 01:02:59,190 --> 01:02:57,200 uh to be honest i can only hypothesize 1831 01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:59,200 um yeah as a member of the public then i 1832 01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:00,400 mean but we're putting this thing up 1833 01:03:04,870 --> 01:03:02,559 there it's going to see further and 1834 01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:04,880 clearer than ever before do you think 1835 01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:06,480 that sort of technology and actually 1836 01:03:09,109 --> 01:03:07,760 i'll bring forward a question i was 1837 01:03:10,390 --> 01:03:09,119 going to ask you later as part of the 1838 01:03:13,510 --> 01:03:10,400 quickfire 1839 01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:13,520 even organizations like like nasa 1840 01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:16,480 do they still have a part to play in 1841 01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:18,799 one day announcing we have found 1842 01:03:24,069 --> 01:03:21,359 extraterrestrial life somewhere else 1843 01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:24,079 or does that come through uh a 1844 01:03:28,309 --> 01:03:26,559 government organization or a space force 1845 01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:28,319 what are your thoughts on that 1846 01:03:31,430 --> 01:03:30,079 well i think nasa or nasa already has 1847 01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:31,440 said that they found life somewhere else 1848 01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:36,470 yeah i get these things are always 1849 01:03:40,630 --> 01:03:38,720 debated but you know we're talking that 1850 01:03:42,710 --> 01:03:40,640 we send something up and there's there's 1851 01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:42,720 a whole you know city of lights and 1852 01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:44,559 venus somewhere or you know and for 1853 01:03:47,670 --> 01:03:46,000 those i know venus isn't going to happen 1854 01:03:49,270 --> 01:03:47,680 i think as far as web goes like very 1855 01:03:51,430 --> 01:03:49,280 possibly but also 1856 01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,440 if you have um 1857 01:03:55,349 --> 01:03:53,520 uh you know an advanced civilization 1858 01:03:56,549 --> 01:03:55,359 that's visiting us and we've seen that 1859 01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:56,559 uap 1860 01:04:02,150 --> 01:03:59,920 are able to you know they have uh 1861 01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:02,160 you know hypersonic velocities with like 1862 01:04:07,109 --> 01:04:04,240 you know with without signatures and 1863 01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:07,119 also signature management then uh 1864 01:04:10,630 --> 01:04:08,960 you know will we discover them in space 1865 01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:10,640 i'm not so sure uh but i think there's a 1866 01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:14,640 lot more that nasa has uh on film uh 1867 01:04:18,309 --> 01:04:16,400 that we haven't seen yet 1868 01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:18,319 um or some things that have been leaked 1869 01:04:22,789 --> 01:04:19,839 and we have seen 1870 01:04:24,710 --> 01:04:22,799 um look i'm not a big believer i don't 1871 01:04:26,630 --> 01:04:24,720 trust big government in any sense either 1872 01:04:28,230 --> 01:04:26,640 the uk or or the american government or 1873 01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:28,240 anybody else i think that they know a 1874 01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:30,079 lot more than they're telling us 1875 01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:33,119 um in terms of uh 1876 01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:34,880 sort of disclosure 1877 01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:36,799 um it depends what it means to people i 1878 01:04:40,150 --> 01:04:38,240 don't think that the american government 1879 01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:40,160 or the uk government has any reason to 1880 01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:42,640 disclose more than you know it needs to 1881 01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:44,720 and if it thinks if they think that they 1882 01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:46,960 can continue along uh just basically 1883 01:04:50,789 --> 01:04:48,960 giving the minimal kind of like dribble 1884 01:04:52,549 --> 01:04:50,799 then they will do so until forced to do 1885 01:04:53,910 --> 01:04:52,559 so otherwise 1886 01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:53,920 just before we get into listener 1887 01:04:58,549 --> 01:04:55,920 questions where we're going to approach 1888 01:05:00,789 --> 01:04:58,559 some more of the 1889 01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:00,799 what's the word the speculation uh that 1890 01:05:03,990 --> 01:05:02,480 people have been throwing the questions 1891 01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:04,000 at me for you some things we've not 1892 01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:05,520 quite approached yet in the conversation 1893 01:05:09,029 --> 01:05:07,359 that i'm looking forward to getting into 1894 01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:09,039 i'm going to hand over to our sponsors 1895 01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:10,480 who have a quick message and then we'll 1896 01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:16,950 thanks to the sponsors and thank you for 1897 01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:18,559 checking those out if you don't want to 1898 01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:20,400 hear adverts remember folks you can sign 1899 01:05:24,390 --> 01:05:22,559 up to patreon apple spotify 1900 01:05:26,069 --> 01:05:24,400 and check out those premium services or 1901 01:05:27,910 --> 01:05:26,079 less than a price of a coffee and you 1902 01:05:29,349 --> 01:05:27,920 don't have to hear the ads but if you do 1903 01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:29,359 thank you very much for checking those 1904 01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:30,160 out 1905 01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:32,400 listen frank i have a ton of listener 1906 01:05:35,829 --> 01:05:34,240 questions for you here things we haven't 1907 01:05:37,990 --> 01:05:35,839 quite touched on yet within the body of 1908 01:05:39,270 --> 01:05:38,000 the interview and i'm looking forward to 1909 01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:39,280 discussing some of these more 1910 01:05:43,910 --> 01:05:41,520 speculative areas with you 1911 01:05:46,789 --> 01:05:43,920 straight brother yeah straight into dave 1912 01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:46,799 lamborn dave wants to know how prominent 1913 01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:48,480 is the rumor amongst intelligence 1914 01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:50,960 community about a cataclysmic event that 1915 01:05:54,870 --> 01:05:53,039 could happen sometime relatively soon 1916 01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:54,880 have you heard this from any independent 1917 01:05:58,069 --> 01:05:56,400 sources 1918 01:06:00,789 --> 01:05:58,079 yeah very good question i've heard this 1919 01:06:03,270 --> 01:06:00,799 from three independent sources 1920 01:06:05,990 --> 01:06:03,280 one from the intelligence community and 1921 01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:06,000 from two scientists i 1922 01:06:08,789 --> 01:06:07,680 cannot verify 1923 01:06:10,630 --> 01:06:08,799 um 1924 01:06:12,549 --> 01:06:10,640 what they've said apart from 1925 01:06:14,230 --> 01:06:12,559 they're all telling me the same thing 1926 01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:14,240 and i know 1927 01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:17,200 i've spoken with ross coulthart and he's 1928 01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:18,480 told me that he's heard the same thing 1929 01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:19,920 from his sources 1930 01:06:25,349 --> 01:06:21,920 um but it's something that i i can't 1931 01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:25,359 physically verify but uh 1932 01:06:28,789 --> 01:06:27,680 i would say 1933 01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:28,799 i can't 1934 01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:32,400 believe that it's true 1935 01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:34,960 amid we talk cataclysms are we looking 1936 01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:37,520 here at like armageddon independence day 1937 01:06:40,309 --> 01:06:39,200 obviously you can't break trust but can 1938 01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:40,319 you tell us a movie that we should be 1939 01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:42,319 kind of watching to brush up on 1940 01:06:45,510 --> 01:06:43,839 well no i've been told various different 1941 01:06:48,309 --> 01:06:45,520 scenarios that um 1942 01:06:49,910 --> 01:06:48,319 it could be a um you know meteorites 1943 01:06:51,910 --> 01:06:49,920 heading towards the earth 1944 01:06:53,430 --> 01:06:51,920 it could be uh and this sounds really 1945 01:06:55,190 --> 01:06:53,440 really out there this is what i've been 1946 01:06:56,309 --> 01:06:55,200 told okay i can't prove this that's 1947 01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:56,319 really out there 1948 01:07:02,390 --> 01:06:57,280 uh 1949 01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:02,400 american nukes which would be 1950 01:07:07,990 --> 01:07:05,920 uh targeted uh to destroy incoming 1951 01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:08,000 asteroids okay 1952 01:07:10,789 --> 01:07:09,280 um 1953 01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:10,799 then you add into the mix like you know 1954 01:07:15,190 --> 01:07:12,720 time travelers uh 1955 01:07:17,589 --> 01:07:15,200 one time traveller group which is uh 1956 01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:17,599 graze us from the future who want the 1957 01:07:22,069 --> 01:07:19,920 cataclysm to happen because they want to 1958 01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:22,079 exist regardless of how screwed up they 1959 01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:23,520 are and 1960 01:07:28,390 --> 01:07:27,119 other future humans who exist just after 1961 01:07:29,990 --> 01:07:28,400 cataclysm happen 1962 01:07:31,349 --> 01:07:30,000 and want to come back because they have 1963 01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:31,359 the technology and want to prevent the 1964 01:07:35,349 --> 01:07:32,960 cataclysm happening 1965 01:07:37,829 --> 01:07:35,359 i can't substantiate any of that okay 1966 01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:37,839 it's stuff that i've been told and i 1967 01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:39,839 believe my sources when they say they 1968 01:07:43,670 --> 01:07:41,760 believe it i have one source in 1969 01:07:48,069 --> 01:07:43,680 particular they tell me that they are in 1970 01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:48,079 contact with temporal agents okay so 1971 01:07:52,870 --> 01:07:50,400 there you go 1972 01:07:54,470 --> 01:07:52,880 through no other thing other than 1973 01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:54,480 coincidence then again if you don't 1974 01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:56,000 believe in that it might all be karma 1975 01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:58,559 whatever it might be i had lined up ross 1976 01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:00,880 cool tap dr michael masters and then 1977 01:08:04,470 --> 01:08:03,200 yourself as three interviews in a row 1978 01:08:06,309 --> 01:08:04,480 and people might think that was 1979 01:08:08,630 --> 01:08:06,319 deliberate genius on my part as they 1980 01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,640 flowed together very well um it was just 1981 01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:10,400 pure pure luck on my part i managed to 1982 01:08:14,630 --> 01:08:12,720 get three excellent guests 1983 01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:14,640 dr michael masters and the last one have 1984 01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:17,120 you talked about temporal extra temporal 1985 01:08:20,950 --> 01:08:18,960 visitors 1986 01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:20,960 what are your thoughts on the idea that 1987 01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:23,120 we do have and listen time travel is a 1988 01:08:26,870 --> 01:08:24,880 huge subject if you want to think back 1989 01:08:29,189 --> 01:08:26,880 to the future you can turn it any kind 1990 01:08:30,950 --> 01:08:29,199 of movie but it might be something far 1991 01:08:34,229 --> 01:08:30,960 more strange and complex than we can 1992 01:08:35,990 --> 01:08:34,239 even imagine how time may work but do 1993 01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:36,000 you think there's a likelihood that we 1994 01:08:39,510 --> 01:08:37,199 do have 1995 01:08:41,510 --> 01:08:39,520 some sort of of time travel time 1996 01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:41,520 traveling entity or entities 1997 01:08:47,829 --> 01:08:44,880 being involved with with us as a species 1998 01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:47,839 uh personally i do and um you know mike 1999 01:08:52,470 --> 01:08:50,719 masters is a colleague from 2000 01:08:54,309 --> 01:08:52,480 scu as well 2001 01:08:55,510 --> 01:08:54,319 and i've talked to mike uh you know 2002 01:08:57,269 --> 01:08:55,520 about this 2003 01:08:59,430 --> 01:08:57,279 and he's also spoken to one of my 2004 01:09:01,590 --> 01:08:59,440 sources about this who is uh 2005 01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:01,600 like i said a genius level scientist 2006 01:09:05,189 --> 01:09:03,600 um i believe it's quite possible i 2007 01:09:08,149 --> 01:09:05,199 personally don't have any proof i 2008 01:09:10,630 --> 01:09:08,159 personally haven't been contacted by 2009 01:09:11,990 --> 01:09:10,640 a temporal agent but you know i'm 2010 01:09:13,749 --> 01:09:12,000 speaking to people 2011 01:09:15,510 --> 01:09:13,759 like for months now who consistently are 2012 01:09:16,870 --> 01:09:15,520 saying that you know that these things 2013 01:09:19,030 --> 01:09:16,880 do happen 2014 01:09:21,030 --> 01:09:19,040 and that they are in contact with 2015 01:09:22,709 --> 01:09:21,040 uh people from the future 2016 01:09:24,309 --> 01:09:22,719 and that uh you know we all have a 2017 01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:24,319 destiny to play 2018 01:09:27,749 --> 01:09:26,000 so 2019 01:09:29,749 --> 01:09:27,759 it's uh 2020 01:09:31,510 --> 01:09:29,759 it's very hard for me to 2021 01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:31,520 discount what they're saying let's put 2022 01:09:35,189 --> 01:09:33,120 it that way based on my relationships 2023 01:09:37,269 --> 01:09:35,199 with them 2024 01:09:39,349 --> 01:09:37,279 and were they ever given or giving you 2025 01:09:42,149 --> 01:09:39,359 any sort of time skills as to when 2026 01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:42,159 events may happen or occur 2027 01:09:49,829 --> 01:09:48,149 we're going to see it then so if if 2028 01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:49,839 indeed it does happen but when you're 2029 01:09:53,910 --> 01:09:51,600 talking about time and timelines you 2030 01:09:55,110 --> 01:09:53,920 know things can and do change and 2031 01:09:56,550 --> 01:09:55,120 there's always 2032 01:09:58,390 --> 01:09:56,560 the potential like you i think you're 2033 01:10:00,229 --> 01:09:58,400 very rightly said that you believe your 2034 01:10:01,750 --> 01:10:00,239 sources believe it but that doesn't 2035 01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:01,760 necessarily mean that somewhere down the 2036 01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:03,760 line sources can be wrong or fed 2037 01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:05,520 misinformation or 2038 01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:07,199 things change so that's why you've 2039 01:10:09,990 --> 01:10:08,640 always got to quantify those those 2040 01:10:12,310 --> 01:10:10,000 comments i don't believe that they've 2041 01:10:14,149 --> 01:10:12,320 been fed misinformation because they are 2042 01:10:16,310 --> 01:10:14,159 very highly placed both in intelligence 2043 01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:16,320 community and also in the science world 2044 01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:18,960 uh in terms of i mean a couple of people 2045 01:10:22,709 --> 01:10:20,880 that i'm talking to uh you know they're 2046 01:10:24,790 --> 01:10:22,719 up there they're unknown 2047 01:10:26,709 --> 01:10:24,800 but in the science world they're up 2048 01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:26,719 there with eric davis and hal put off 2049 01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:28,400 they're in that kind of uh pantheon 2050 01:10:32,870 --> 01:10:31,199 right of kind of like brilliance 2051 01:10:35,350 --> 01:10:32,880 uh i believe that they believe what 2052 01:10:38,310 --> 01:10:35,360 they're saying i just can't provide any 2053 01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:38,320 proof and you know me andy uh you know i 2054 01:10:42,149 --> 01:10:39,360 will always 2055 01:10:44,070 --> 01:10:42,159 if i've if i write a paper i'll put down 2056 01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:44,080 you know elizondo said this or chris 2057 01:10:47,830 --> 01:10:45,920 mellon said that okay you can take that 2058 01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:47,840 to the bank or you can 2059 01:10:51,270 --> 01:10:49,040 um 2060 01:10:53,110 --> 01:10:51,280 you know you can uh you know decide what 2061 01:10:55,590 --> 01:10:53,120 you want based on on the base of that 2062 01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:55,600 but the fact is that i will put down 2063 01:11:00,550 --> 01:10:57,600 what somebody has said or i will have an 2064 01:11:01,910 --> 01:11:00,560 email that i can reproduce or i'll have 2065 01:11:03,830 --> 01:11:01,920 you know like from the project condone 2066 01:11:06,630 --> 01:11:03,840 report i will have uh you know an 2067 01:11:07,750 --> 01:11:06,640 extract from a declassified document if 2068 01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:07,760 i don't have that then it's just 2069 01:11:11,669 --> 01:11:09,760 hypothesis 2070 01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:11,679 sure and it's you know what it's it's 2071 01:11:15,669 --> 01:11:13,679 fun as much as cataclysms and 2072 01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:15,679 cataclysmic events can be fun uh to 2073 01:11:19,430 --> 01:11:17,760 hypothesize about and discuss and talk 2074 01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:19,440 about so it's something we'll definitely 2075 01:11:22,870 --> 01:11:21,360 be keeping an eye on and and hopefully 2076 01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:22,880 those sort of events do not happen 2077 01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:25,360 obviously onto 2078 01:11:30,070 --> 01:11:27,520 yeah newman has sent in some great 2079 01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:30,080 questions recently has frank any ideas 2080 01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:32,080 in which way our genetics may have been 2081 01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:34,400 tinkered with in terms of mechanisms and 2082 01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:38,400 to what what towards which abilities 2083 01:11:43,910 --> 01:11:41,120 uh i don't know about that um 2084 01:11:45,910 --> 01:11:43,920 i know john ramirez does um 2085 01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:45,920 but uh i i don't have anything really to 2086 01:11:49,669 --> 01:11:47,760 add to that i just i just don't know i 2087 01:11:51,990 --> 01:11:49,679 think it's quite possible but um i've 2088 01:11:54,310 --> 01:11:52,000 got no evidence or you know to back up 2089 01:11:56,149 --> 01:11:54,320 anything that i would or would not say 2090 01:11:57,590 --> 01:11:56,159 and is that something you've heard about 2091 01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:57,600 in your and your time in the ic 2092 01:12:02,470 --> 01:11:59,520 community or you know and in alaska 2093 01:12:04,149 --> 01:12:02,480 nothing i heard about in the ic no 2094 01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:04,159 no but you know i can't discount it 2095 01:12:08,229 --> 01:12:05,760 because uh you know i've spoken to a lot 2096 01:12:09,590 --> 01:12:08,239 of people experiences i mean i'm an 2097 01:12:12,630 --> 01:12:09,600 experiencer but i've spoken to 2098 01:12:14,070 --> 01:12:12,640 experiences adductees um i can't 2099 01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:14,080 discount what people are saying because 2100 01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:15,440 there's simply too many people who are 2101 01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:17,040 saying the same thing 2102 01:12:19,910 --> 01:12:18,080 um 2103 01:12:21,669 --> 01:12:19,920 if you look at uh you know like a lot of 2104 01:12:24,310 --> 01:12:21,679 the research that's been done uh you 2105 01:12:25,669 --> 01:12:24,320 know whether it's john mack uh or others 2106 01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:25,679 there's just you know 2107 01:12:28,550 --> 01:12:26,960 there are too many people saying the 2108 01:12:30,149 --> 01:12:28,560 same thing so i i can't discount what 2109 01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,159 they say i just don't have any any 2110 01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:32,239 experience of it myself 2111 01:12:35,430 --> 01:12:33,840 but i keep an open mind 2112 01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:35,440 so we're talking about you know you're 2113 01:12:39,350 --> 01:12:37,280 you're meeting various officials you're 2114 01:12:41,830 --> 01:12:39,360 talking to various different sources 2115 01:12:43,510 --> 01:12:41,840 yeah you're an experiencer 2116 01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:43,520 does that 2117 01:12:47,189 --> 01:12:45,040 sway you've said you've got an open mind 2118 01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:47,199 but how much of your own experiences 2119 01:12:50,950 --> 01:12:48,880 change what you're doing don't take any 2120 01:12:52,950 --> 01:12:50,960 you know consideration as being as being 2121 01:12:55,990 --> 01:12:52,960 the truth 2122 01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:56,000 well put it this way um 2123 01:13:01,189 --> 01:12:57,840 from my own experiences 2124 01:13:02,950 --> 01:13:01,199 uh talking to colonel john alexander 2125 01:13:06,229 --> 01:13:02,960 and he's uh one of the only ones that 2126 01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:06,239 i've shared my experiences with 2127 01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:09,040 uh i believe completely 2128 01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:10,800 in the 2129 01:13:14,310 --> 01:13:12,400 hitchhiker theory 2130 01:13:16,830 --> 01:13:14,320 uh from skinwalker 2131 01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:16,840 because i had a similar experience 2132 01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:19,520 myself uh after 2133 01:13:23,430 --> 01:13:21,760 having written my first paper and having 2134 01:13:24,709 --> 01:13:23,440 been in kind of like deep discussions 2135 01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:24,719 with colonel john alexander about 2136 01:13:28,390 --> 01:13:26,000 skinwalker and i'll just leave it at 2137 01:13:29,830 --> 01:13:28,400 that but it left no doubt in my mind 2138 01:13:31,189 --> 01:13:29,840 that uh 2139 01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:31,199 you don't even have to have gone to 2140 01:13:34,630 --> 01:13:32,800 skinwalker you could just be talking 2141 01:13:37,110 --> 01:13:34,640 about it thinking about it writing about 2142 01:13:38,630 --> 01:13:37,120 it and you might have an experience 2143 01:13:41,669 --> 01:13:38,640 i can appreciate that no thanks for 2144 01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:41,679 thanks for sharing um craig i wanted to 2145 01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:44,880 know what evidence has frank seen of 2146 01:13:49,270 --> 01:13:47,440 holden's credentials holden isn't a an 2147 01:13:50,310 --> 01:13:49,280 official we've heard about in the in the 2148 01:13:51,830 --> 01:13:50,320 scene in the last couple of years 2149 01:13:54,229 --> 01:13:51,840 particularly uh i've heard about him and 2150 01:13:55,590 --> 01:13:54,239 i haven't checked him out um 2151 01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:55,600 it's just something that i haven't done 2152 01:14:00,709 --> 01:13:58,560 um i obviously check out all my sources 2153 01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:00,719 uh whether i speak to a scientist or 2154 01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:02,320 member of the intelligence community 2155 01:14:06,550 --> 01:14:04,560 it's uh 2156 01:14:08,310 --> 01:14:06,560 they always know somebody that i know 2157 01:14:09,830 --> 01:14:08,320 for example 2158 01:14:12,310 --> 01:14:09,840 when i first reached out to colonel john 2159 01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:12,320 alexander 2160 01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:14,640 i got his email from dr jack sarfati and 2161 01:14:18,310 --> 01:14:16,320 like they're not the best mates they're 2162 01:14:21,030 --> 01:14:18,320 not the best of mates by any by any 2163 01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:21,040 stretch right but uh i contacted colonel 2164 01:14:25,510 --> 01:14:23,920 john alexander and i said um i mean this 2165 01:14:27,590 --> 01:14:25,520 is kind of like my network and i said oh 2166 01:14:29,990 --> 01:14:27,600 um do you know uh you know colonel 2167 01:14:32,070 --> 01:14:30,000 charles beckwith who was the founder of 2168 01:14:33,750 --> 01:14:32,080 the american delta force and john 2169 01:14:35,669 --> 01:14:33,760 alexander is like oh yeah frank he goes 2170 01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:35,679 i know charlie beckwith uh you know we 2171 01:14:39,430 --> 01:14:37,840 were on a ranger course together in 1958 2172 01:14:41,830 --> 01:14:39,440 and i went oh that's great colonel i 2173 01:14:43,830 --> 01:14:41,840 said um because uh you know my old man 2174 01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:43,840 uh knows charlie beckwith from hereford 2175 01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:46,080 days because uh charlie beckwith went to 2176 01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:49,440 hereford uh to basically train with sas 2177 01:14:54,229 --> 01:14:51,600 so that was kind of like my my in 2178 01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:54,239 uh to colonel john alexander um so i've 2179 01:14:58,310 --> 01:14:56,400 got that kind of network uh and if i 2180 01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:58,320 speak to people i know the central 2181 01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:00,400 intelligence agency or the dia i've got 2182 01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:03,280 networks uh people who know me and will 2183 01:15:06,790 --> 01:15:05,199 introduce me to them and then once 2184 01:15:09,030 --> 01:15:06,800 you're introduced to them 2185 01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:09,040 then you know somebody new pops up and 2186 01:15:13,270 --> 01:15:11,760 uh you know uh i will always go back to 2187 01:15:14,790 --> 01:15:13,280 my context go do you know this person or 2188 01:15:17,830 --> 01:15:14,800 do you know of this person i'll go uh 2189 01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:17,840 yes he or she is legit or he or she is 2190 01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:24,390 and on this occasion uh holden isn't one 2191 01:15:28,470 --> 01:15:26,480 you've heard of yet or i've been able to 2192 01:15:29,830 --> 01:15:28,480 to clarify or quantify i haven't i 2193 01:15:31,910 --> 01:15:29,840 haven't even checked up on him i mean i 2194 01:15:33,270 --> 01:15:31,920 i really i he he hasn't been on my radar 2195 01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:33,280 at all 2196 01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:35,040 sorry i didn't answer your question no 2197 01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:36,640 no that's okay i just wanted to make 2198 01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:38,560 sure i hadn't missed that um and is it 2199 01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:40,560 someone that you plan on or is it just a 2200 01:15:44,709 --> 01:15:41,920 case of unless you come across them 2201 01:15:46,149 --> 01:15:44,719 yourself the there's no need to 2202 01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:46,159 no i'm to be honest i'm already that 2203 01:15:51,030 --> 01:15:48,560 borrowed i mean i've got so 2204 01:15:53,189 --> 01:15:51,040 i've got such great contacts um i 2205 01:15:54,630 --> 01:15:53,199 haven't been writing papers just because 2206 01:15:56,149 --> 01:15:54,640 i'm literally 2207 01:15:57,590 --> 01:15:56,159 on signal 2208 01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:57,600 um 2209 01:16:00,870 --> 01:15:59,280 and other means like every day i 2210 01:16:02,630 --> 01:16:00,880 probably spend about an hour to two 2211 01:16:05,270 --> 01:16:02,640 hours a day talking with my sources just 2212 01:16:07,510 --> 01:16:05,280 now i mean i've got enough material to 2213 01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:07,520 write like a couple of books 2214 01:16:11,510 --> 01:16:09,520 if they would let me but i would never 2215 01:16:13,350 --> 01:16:11,520 do that without uh you know without 2216 01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:13,360 their confidence to do so actually one 2217 01:16:17,750 --> 01:16:15,679 of my sources has said um 2218 01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:17,760 but they want to write a book with me um 2219 01:16:21,669 --> 01:16:19,679 which would be very very interesting but 2220 01:16:23,189 --> 01:16:21,679 they haven't come out of the closet yet 2221 01:16:24,550 --> 01:16:23,199 and um 2222 01:16:26,709 --> 01:16:24,560 you know obviously i'm never gonna 2223 01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:26,719 expose my sources unless they wanna be 2224 01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:28,560 but uh you know that that's the stage 2225 01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:30,800 that i'm at at the moment 2226 01:16:33,990 --> 01:16:32,320 maybe put something in the form of an 2227 01:16:35,830 --> 01:16:34,000 interesting narrative and a story that 2228 01:16:37,830 --> 01:16:35,840 you can uh you know tom delong seems to 2229 01:16:39,110 --> 01:16:37,840 have done that quite successfully so i'm 2230 01:16:40,950 --> 01:16:39,120 sure there's room for it from a british 2231 01:16:42,550 --> 01:16:40,960 perspective 2232 01:16:43,990 --> 01:16:42,560 yeah but you know me andy i like to do 2233 01:16:45,110 --> 01:16:44,000 things that are kind of like original 2234 01:16:46,950 --> 01:16:45,120 and i like to think that you know my 2235 01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:46,960 first paper my second paper were 2236 01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:49,280 original i want to do original things 2237 01:16:52,070 --> 01:16:50,800 other people haven't covered 2238 01:16:54,550 --> 01:16:52,080 um 2239 01:16:55,590 --> 01:16:54,560 you know i do do kind of like uh uap 2240 01:16:57,430 --> 01:16:55,600 news 2241 01:16:59,669 --> 01:16:57,440 uh you know i covered like gila brand 2242 01:17:01,110 --> 01:16:59,679 amendment and things like that but uh 2243 01:17:03,590 --> 01:17:01,120 i think i'm more kind of like a deep 2244 01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:03,600 dive kind of bloke 2245 01:17:07,189 --> 01:17:06,000 yeah no i appreciate that um and listen 2246 01:17:09,910 --> 01:17:07,199 let's get back into the questions 2247 01:17:11,590 --> 01:17:09,920 christopher conrady um christopher said 2248 01:17:13,830 --> 01:17:11,600 stories about sightings by army 2249 01:17:15,910 --> 01:17:13,840 personnel seem to always end with i 2250 01:17:17,669 --> 01:17:15,920 reported this to my superior and was 2251 01:17:19,110 --> 01:17:17,679 told to keep it quiet it never happened 2252 01:17:20,470 --> 01:17:19,120 and you've kind of mentioned that before 2253 01:17:22,470 --> 01:17:20,480 with some of the pilot stuff going 2254 01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:22,480 missing often with evidence being 2255 01:17:26,790 --> 01:17:24,960 destroyed in the process um i wonder if 2256 01:17:28,790 --> 01:17:26,800 frank wants to speculate as to why this 2257 01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:28,800 culture seems to permeate all levels of 2258 01:17:32,310 --> 01:17:30,719 the military why would a lower level 2259 01:17:34,709 --> 01:17:32,320 officer really care to make these 2260 01:17:36,630 --> 01:17:34,719 observations disappear and care to the 2261 01:17:38,950 --> 01:17:36,640 degree of destroying evidence and going 2262 01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:38,960 way outside the protocol the risk reward 2263 01:17:44,709 --> 01:17:43,110 uh 2264 01:17:46,550 --> 01:17:44,719 the truth is i don't know it would have 2265 01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:46,560 to be on a case-by-case basis obviously 2266 01:17:49,990 --> 01:17:48,400 historically there's been um 2267 01:17:53,990 --> 01:17:50,000 like a massive stigma 2268 01:17:54,790 --> 01:17:54,000 uh associated with uh uap sightings 2269 01:17:56,390 --> 01:17:54,800 uh 2270 01:17:57,430 --> 01:17:56,400 one thing i will say 2271 01:17:59,430 --> 01:17:57,440 is 2272 01:18:00,630 --> 01:17:59,440 to my knowledge and you can read between 2273 01:18:04,790 --> 01:18:00,640 the lines here 2274 01:18:06,070 --> 01:18:04,800 uh that hasn't existed in uh in the uk 2275 01:18:08,149 --> 01:18:06,080 okay 2276 01:18:09,910 --> 01:18:08,159 uh people can report things i can't just 2277 01:18:11,350 --> 01:18:09,920 say what they reported but people have 2278 01:18:14,229 --> 01:18:11,360 reported things 2279 01:18:16,149 --> 01:18:14,239 um but uh yeah stigma has existed for 2280 01:18:18,790 --> 01:18:16,159 years and years and years so 2281 01:18:21,030 --> 01:18:18,800 you know if you want to advance um i 2282 01:18:23,990 --> 01:18:21,040 mean look at look at bob salas i mean he 2283 01:18:26,550 --> 01:18:24,000 reported his 2284 01:18:29,990 --> 01:18:26,560 his experiences and what happened at 2285 01:18:32,229 --> 01:18:30,000 at his missile silo right yeah and 2286 01:18:35,110 --> 01:18:32,239 it was taken seriously and he wasn't 2287 01:18:36,630 --> 01:18:35,120 removed from his post 2288 01:18:38,790 --> 01:18:36,640 okay but he wasn't told anything about 2289 01:18:40,390 --> 01:18:38,800 it either so you know that's what you're 2290 01:18:43,750 --> 01:18:40,400 dealing with 2291 01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:43,760 and that's fair um john coughlin asks 2292 01:18:48,070 --> 01:18:45,600 does frank harbor thoughts on the 2293 01:18:50,630 --> 01:18:48,080 deafening silence from the u.s air force 2294 01:18:52,630 --> 01:18:50,640 more conspicuous by the minute focuses 2295 01:18:54,550 --> 01:18:52,640 have an increasing consideration that it 2296 01:18:58,390 --> 01:18:54,560 is the nexus for historical and 2297 01:18:59,510 --> 01:18:58,400 contemporary denial of the phenomena 2298 01:19:01,189 --> 01:18:59,520 well i think there's less deafening 2299 01:19:02,149 --> 01:19:01,199 silence now from the u.s air force with 2300 01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:02,159 the 2301 01:19:07,590 --> 01:19:05,040 publication of 2302 01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:07,600 skinwalkers the pentagon because 2303 01:19:10,310 --> 01:19:09,120 when they're talking about the interview 2304 01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:10,320 they had with 2305 01:19:12,550 --> 01:19:11,280 air force officers special 2306 01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:12,560 investigations 2307 01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:14,400 special projects 2308 01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:16,080 they were told 2309 01:19:19,990 --> 01:19:17,760 that air force officers special 2310 01:19:22,390 --> 01:19:20,000 investigations had investigated the 2311 01:19:24,550 --> 01:19:22,400 northern tier sightings in the 1970s 2312 01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:24,560 so i think slowly this is coming out but 2313 01:19:27,590 --> 01:19:25,600 um 2314 01:19:28,630 --> 01:19:27,600 what i still find intriguing is you know 2315 01:19:31,510 --> 01:19:28,640 in uh 2316 01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:31,520 2004 the nimitz case 2317 01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:33,120 who was taking the hard drives right so 2318 01:19:38,229 --> 01:19:34,800 these were air force officers being 2319 01:19:39,990 --> 01:19:38,239 helicoptered out to battle group ships 2320 01:19:41,510 --> 01:19:40,000 air force officers taking hard drives 2321 01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:41,520 from the hawkeye 2322 01:19:45,510 --> 01:19:43,920 from the aircraft and from the 2323 01:19:47,910 --> 01:19:45,520 the princeton 2324 01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:47,920 so who were these air force officers 2325 01:19:51,430 --> 01:19:49,199 were they air force officers special 2326 01:19:53,189 --> 01:19:51,440 investigations and then who was carrying 2327 01:19:56,870 --> 01:19:53,199 out uh you know like the forensic 2328 01:19:58,790 --> 01:19:56,880 analysis of uh of the the data sets that 2329 01:20:01,110 --> 01:19:58,800 they had and and that still hasn't come 2330 01:20:06,310 --> 01:20:03,430 do you hold the belief that with the 2331 01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:06,320 potential new office and the aoi msg 2332 01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:07,440 that 2333 01:20:11,430 --> 01:20:09,360 the air force and the navy 2334 01:20:13,590 --> 01:20:11,440 they may start working a little bit more 2335 01:20:14,870 --> 01:20:13,600 together or is that still going to be 2336 01:20:16,950 --> 01:20:14,880 something they're going to they're going 2337 01:20:19,830 --> 01:20:16,960 to fight as much as possible 2338 01:20:21,270 --> 01:20:19,840 as pertains to this subject of course 2339 01:20:24,390 --> 01:20:21,280 well i think there's always going to be 2340 01:20:26,550 --> 01:20:24,400 professional rivalry uh because uh you 2341 01:20:28,149 --> 01:20:26,560 know the navy has you know a huge amount 2342 01:20:29,430 --> 01:20:28,159 of aircraft with the marine corps as 2343 01:20:30,870 --> 01:20:29,440 well 2344 01:20:32,870 --> 01:20:30,880 um 2345 01:20:34,550 --> 01:20:32,880 you got to look at it in terms of 2346 01:20:36,310 --> 01:20:34,560 um 2347 01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:36,320 the army has the american army has 2348 01:20:41,830 --> 01:20:39,120 aircraft uh the air force has aircraft 2349 01:20:43,910 --> 01:20:41,840 right an aircraft fleet uh the navy has 2350 01:20:45,189 --> 01:20:43,920 an aircraft fleet the marine corps have 2351 01:20:47,189 --> 01:20:45,199 an aircraft fleet although they part of 2352 01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:47,199 the navy and also 2353 01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:50,080 um the coast guard have an aircraft 2354 01:20:55,030 --> 01:20:52,320 fleet okay so it's always a competition 2355 01:20:56,790 --> 01:20:55,040 for resources uh i think though that 2356 01:20:58,950 --> 01:20:56,800 with i would like to think 2357 01:21:01,830 --> 01:20:58,960 that with uh 2358 01:21:02,870 --> 01:21:01,840 the current ndia as it has been signed 2359 01:21:04,390 --> 01:21:02,880 off 2360 01:21:05,990 --> 01:21:04,400 that now 2361 01:21:08,870 --> 01:21:06,000 uh because it's it's basically a 2362 01:21:10,629 --> 01:21:08,880 transposition of the different um 2363 01:21:13,110 --> 01:21:10,639 different service branches also 2364 01:21:15,750 --> 01:21:13,120 interlock with different uh members of 2365 01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:15,760 the american intelligence community so 2366 01:21:19,110 --> 01:21:18,000 uh army is part of the uh army 2367 01:21:20,550 --> 01:21:19,120 intelligence as part of the the 2368 01:21:21,910 --> 01:21:20,560 intelligence community 2369 01:21:23,669 --> 01:21:21,920 coast guard intelligence is part of the 2370 01:21:24,950 --> 01:21:23,679 intelligence community uh naval 2371 01:21:26,790 --> 01:21:24,960 intelligence as part of the intelligence 2372 01:21:28,310 --> 01:21:26,800 community uh 2373 01:21:29,910 --> 01:21:28,320 marine corps intelligence as part of the 2374 01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:29,920 intelligence community right air force 2375 01:21:33,669 --> 01:21:31,199 intelligence as part of the intelligence 2376 01:21:36,390 --> 01:21:33,679 community and so on so now that they've 2377 01:21:38,390 --> 01:21:36,400 been mandated by congress uh to work 2378 01:21:39,750 --> 01:21:38,400 together uh i think they will work 2379 01:21:40,550 --> 01:21:39,760 together better because if they don't 2380 01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:40,560 then 2381 01:21:45,830 --> 01:21:44,400 their uh senior uniform members are 2382 01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:45,840 gonna be have to uh start asking 2383 01:21:49,669 --> 01:21:47,760 questions 2384 01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:49,679 peter wants to know what do you guys 2385 01:21:53,030 --> 01:21:51,280 think of what will come of john 2386 01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:53,040 greenwald from the black vaults foia 2387 01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:55,360 appeal for the uap task force info the 2388 01:21:59,510 --> 01:21:57,440 request it's due on january third or 2389 01:22:00,629 --> 01:21:59,520 fourth and also happy new year so happy 2390 01:22:02,709 --> 01:22:00,639 new year pr 2391 01:22:05,910 --> 01:22:02,719 yeah happy new year brother um i've got 2392 01:22:07,990 --> 01:22:05,920 no idea but uh greenwald is a top guy 2393 01:22:09,990 --> 01:22:08,000 and uh i wish him all the best with that 2394 01:22:11,830 --> 01:22:10,000 but i've got no idea about an individual 2395 01:22:13,669 --> 01:22:11,840 foil request 2396 01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:13,679 i know i was just double checking that 2397 01:22:18,470 --> 01:22:15,760 literally as we were recording john had 2398 01:22:19,990 --> 01:22:18,480 put online that uh he's had a reply to 2399 01:22:22,229 --> 01:22:20,000 some stuff but i've not managed to check 2400 01:22:23,510 --> 01:22:22,239 that out yet um so that's maybe 2401 01:22:25,669 --> 01:22:23,520 something we can follow up on in a 2402 01:22:27,430 --> 01:22:25,679 future pod just in case it's the the 2403 01:22:30,070 --> 01:22:27,440 response that he was expecting but yeah 2404 01:22:32,310 --> 01:22:30,080 thanks again peter uh ganosis says for 2405 01:22:34,470 --> 01:22:32,320 frank do you have a favorite case or 2406 01:22:36,790 --> 01:22:34,480 based on what you know a most credible 2407 01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:36,800 case that involves not only a craft but 2408 01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:46,790 um 2409 01:22:52,709 --> 01:22:49,189 that's a difficult one i mean i say 2410 01:22:53,830 --> 01:22:52,719 my favorite case is the 1976 tehran case 2411 01:22:55,910 --> 01:22:53,840 um 2412 01:22:58,709 --> 01:22:55,920 with fighter interceptors 2413 01:22:59,990 --> 01:22:58,719 trying to intercept uap 2414 01:23:01,510 --> 01:23:00,000 i don't have a favorite case that 2415 01:23:03,110 --> 01:23:01,520 involves an entity 2416 01:23:05,189 --> 01:23:03,120 um although 2417 01:23:07,510 --> 01:23:05,199 that south american one 2418 01:23:09,350 --> 01:23:07,520 that film that jack valet did 2419 01:23:11,510 --> 01:23:09,360 with that guy on the pampers right that 2420 01:23:15,750 --> 01:23:11,520 was very very compelling 2421 01:23:18,790 --> 01:23:15,760 um so that that's an awesome case 2422 01:23:21,030 --> 01:23:18,800 have you seen frank the the turkey ufo 2423 01:23:22,950 --> 01:23:21,040 footage as it's known 2424 01:23:25,669 --> 01:23:22,960 yeah i have seen it yeah what are your 2425 01:23:30,550 --> 01:23:28,550 um i'll be honest i'm not a 2426 01:23:33,189 --> 01:23:30,560 you know i'm not an imagery specialist 2427 01:23:35,669 --> 01:23:33,199 um i saw 2428 01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:35,679 uh what's the name of that air force guy 2429 01:23:38,229 --> 01:23:36,719 um 2430 01:23:40,470 --> 01:23:38,239 he did a breakdown of it he was very 2431 01:23:42,149 --> 01:23:40,480 very good chris lito 2432 01:23:44,070 --> 01:23:42,159 yeah yeah yeah chris lisa yeah yeah and 2433 01:23:45,590 --> 01:23:44,080 i actually chatted to him um yeah he did 2434 01:23:47,270 --> 01:23:45,600 a very good breakdown on it i don't know 2435 01:23:49,189 --> 01:23:47,280 enough about it but uh it seems very 2436 01:23:50,629 --> 01:23:49,199 compelling based on the work that he did 2437 01:23:52,229 --> 01:23:50,639 i mean um you know he's a former 2438 01:23:53,990 --> 01:23:52,239 lieutenant colonel on the us air force 2439 01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:54,000 if he pays attention to it then it's 2440 01:23:56,709 --> 01:23:55,679 worth it then it's worth whether you've 2441 01:23:58,070 --> 01:23:56,719 studied 2442 01:23:59,669 --> 01:23:58,080 and if people want to go back and check 2443 01:24:01,750 --> 01:23:59,679 i interviewed chris a few months ago as 2444 01:24:03,189 --> 01:24:01,760 well and he's a good guy he's got a good 2445 01:24:04,550 --> 01:24:03,199 channel and definitely be checking that 2446 01:24:06,629 --> 01:24:04,560 out folks 2447 01:24:08,310 --> 01:24:06,639 he's sounded i mean he comes at it from 2448 01:24:09,830 --> 01:24:08,320 you know he was an air safety expert 2449 01:24:11,590 --> 01:24:09,840 apart from being you know uh like a you 2450 01:24:13,750 --> 01:24:11,600 know basically a you know top pilot an 2451 01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:13,760 air safety expert 2452 01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:15,520 and uh you know an aerial investigator 2453 01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:16,480 so 2454 01:24:20,390 --> 01:24:18,400 you know he's a very very credible guy 2455 01:24:21,990 --> 01:24:20,400 to be investigating these things yeah i 2456 01:24:23,990 --> 01:24:22,000 think on that interview we we've done 2457 01:24:26,870 --> 01:24:24,000 about 30 to 40 minutes just on his 2458 01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:26,880 background before of any ufo chat and we 2459 01:24:31,750 --> 01:24:28,719 left in just because of the 2460 01:24:33,830 --> 01:24:31,760 extensiveness of his experience so um 2461 01:24:35,270 --> 01:24:33,840 like you say that that does help um not 2462 01:24:36,709 --> 01:24:35,280 to say it means he's definitely right 2463 01:24:38,310 --> 01:24:36,719 but like you say from a credibility 2464 01:24:40,470 --> 01:24:38,320 point of view he's presenting the best 2465 01:24:42,149 --> 01:24:40,480 evidence he has in front of him which is 2466 01:24:43,750 --> 01:24:42,159 which is well he to me he's a lot more 2467 01:24:45,669 --> 01:24:43,760 credible than skeptics i mean he's 2468 01:24:47,270 --> 01:24:45,679 actually done the business he's actually 2469 01:24:49,510 --> 01:24:47,280 uh you know flown his aircraft into 2470 01:24:51,270 --> 01:24:49,520 harm's way right so um absolutely yeah 2471 01:24:52,870 --> 01:24:51,280 you know and protect the skies above us 2472 01:24:54,629 --> 01:24:52,880 so uh you know guy like that's always 2473 01:24:56,790 --> 01:24:54,639 gonna have my respect 2474 01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:56,800 um speaking of respect that nathan who 2475 01:25:01,510 --> 01:24:58,880 is a long-time listener and also co-host 2476 01:25:04,550 --> 01:25:01,520 on a few shows now um he says i pretty 2477 01:25:06,550 --> 01:25:04,560 much agree with frank that if the us has 2478 01:25:08,550 --> 01:25:06,560 some sort of advanced tech stemming from 2479 01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:08,560 the study of the phenomenon that such 2480 01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:10,239 tech should remain in the black as long 2481 01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:13,199 as possible however however i wonder to 2482 01:25:17,510 --> 01:25:15,120 what degree he has heard or suspects 2483 01:25:18,870 --> 01:25:17,520 that the others may push a disclosure 2484 01:25:21,030 --> 01:25:18,880 timeline regardless of what the 2485 01:25:24,870 --> 01:25:21,040 government may prefer has he heard of 2486 01:25:27,189 --> 01:25:24,880 any intel suggesting this possibility 2487 01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:27,199 i haven't no 2488 01:25:31,189 --> 01:25:29,520 uh it also follows up to what degree do 2489 01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:31,199 you think that others themselves may be 2490 01:25:35,750 --> 01:25:33,040 engaged with the government are they 2491 01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:35,760 passively or actively engaged 2492 01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:37,760 i believe very deeply engaged but i've 2493 01:25:41,189 --> 01:25:39,600 got no proof of that 2494 01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:41,199 and is that again just off the back of 2495 01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:42,880 like you mentioned sources mentioning 2496 01:25:47,350 --> 01:25:45,040 temporal agents that's as far as you can 2497 01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:47,360 really go in terms of i've been told but 2498 01:25:51,669 --> 01:25:50,080 there's no way correct 2499 01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:51,679 that's that's totally fair and again 2500 01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:53,600 thanks to nathan for the question 2501 01:25:58,550 --> 01:25:55,600 jared how will the new language and the 2502 01:26:00,950 --> 01:25:58,560 ndaa um about sharing information with 2503 01:26:02,709 --> 01:26:00,960 foreign partners change information 2504 01:26:04,149 --> 01:26:02,719 sharing we've been told information 2505 01:26:06,790 --> 01:26:04,159 sharing has already been happening 2506 01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:06,800 through five eyes etc 2507 01:26:10,310 --> 01:26:08,480 yeah i mean i think information sharing 2508 01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:10,320 especially between uh you know great 2509 01:26:13,669 --> 01:26:12,000 britain united states um you know we're 2510 01:26:15,270 --> 01:26:13,679 the closest allies right a lot of people 2511 01:26:16,550 --> 01:26:15,280 think that uh israel is america's 2512 01:26:18,709 --> 01:26:16,560 closest ally but actually it's great 2513 01:26:20,460 --> 01:26:18,719 britain um 2514 01:26:21,830 --> 01:26:20,470 if you look back to rendelsham 2515 01:26:24,470 --> 01:26:21,840 [Music] 2516 01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:24,480 that sharing has been on uap has been uh 2517 01:26:28,709 --> 01:26:26,960 you know right from the start uh so i 2518 01:26:30,550 --> 01:26:28,719 think this is just really formalizing a 2519 01:26:31,669 --> 01:26:30,560 relationship that's already there 2520 01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:31,679 um 2521 01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:33,760 ross cool has also got things to say 2522 01:26:37,350 --> 01:26:35,760 about that but i think 2523 01:26:39,669 --> 01:26:37,360 if you look at the deeper relationship 2524 01:26:41,350 --> 01:26:39,679 this this is what's in the ndia is 2525 01:26:43,189 --> 01:26:41,360 really just formalizing what's already 2526 01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:43,199 been there for years and years and i 2527 01:26:48,149 --> 01:26:45,280 think that's the language in the nda is 2528 01:26:51,669 --> 01:26:48,159 just a means for congress to formalize 2529 01:26:53,590 --> 01:26:51,679 and to say to uh the us i see in the dod 2530 01:26:55,430 --> 01:26:53,600 uh you will tell us what's going on with 2531 01:26:57,350 --> 01:26:55,440 allies 2532 01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:57,360 jack thomas final question he had a 2533 01:27:01,030 --> 01:26:58,560 couple of questions of which we've 2534 01:27:03,030 --> 01:27:01,040 touched on already but he mentioned the 2535 01:27:04,550 --> 01:27:03,040 the cataclysm comments that you've made 2536 01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:04,560 and we've just talked about 2537 01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:06,320 he wants to know do you think that the 2538 01:27:11,189 --> 01:27:09,120 appetite for what seems to be a part 2539 01:27:15,590 --> 01:27:11,199 disclosure from the us government is 2540 01:27:21,030 --> 01:27:18,550 i'm told yes maybe um but again i've got 2541 01:27:22,629 --> 01:27:21,040 no proof for that uh i keep an open mind 2542 01:27:23,990 --> 01:27:22,639 i wish i could 2543 01:27:25,910 --> 01:27:24,000 say more but i can't it would just be 2544 01:27:27,430 --> 01:27:25,920 speculation 2545 01:27:29,110 --> 01:27:27,440 no that's totally fair and listen if you 2546 01:27:30,709 --> 01:27:29,120 ever want to speculate people do enjoy 2547 01:27:32,310 --> 01:27:30,719 it but i know frank and i've heard you 2548 01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:32,320 in other interviews that you try and 2549 01:27:37,350 --> 01:27:34,080 keep it as evidence-based as possible 2550 01:27:39,270 --> 01:27:37,360 which which i can totally respect 2551 01:27:41,110 --> 01:27:39,280 yeah exactly mate 2552 01:27:42,870 --> 01:27:41,120 i want to finish off with a quick fire 2553 01:27:45,030 --> 01:27:42,880 round i've got quite a few topics here 2554 01:27:46,950 --> 01:27:45,040 that i want to touch on you can see as 2555 01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:46,960 little or as much on each one as you 2556 01:27:50,870 --> 01:27:48,560 like or you can pass if you don't have 2557 01:27:52,390 --> 01:27:50,880 any particular thoughts as we have been 2558 01:27:54,229 --> 01:27:52,400 recording and we'll just take a quick 2559 01:27:55,990 --> 01:27:54,239 break i have one more listener question 2560 01:27:57,990 --> 01:27:56,000 sent in from longtime listener dave 2561 01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:58,000 smithersthen i hate to mess up any of 2562 01:28:01,750 --> 01:27:59,280 dave's questions 2563 01:28:03,669 --> 01:28:01,760 dave says frank i recently read about a 2564 01:28:05,590 --> 01:28:03,679 doctor dan burrish formerly known as 2565 01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:05,600 crane who featured in a book by william 2566 01:28:10,310 --> 01:28:08,159 hamilton called project aquarius to cut 2567 01:28:13,189 --> 01:28:10,320 a long story short dr burrish claimed to 2568 01:28:14,790 --> 01:28:13,199 work at the s4 facility at area 51 and 2569 01:28:17,030 --> 01:28:14,800 claims to have come into contact with 2570 01:28:19,030 --> 01:28:17,040 future human nordics and greys in a 2571 01:28:21,430 --> 01:28:19,040 conflict trying to prevent or allow a 2572 01:28:23,350 --> 01:28:21,440 catastrophe in the near future it sounds 2573 01:28:25,189 --> 01:28:23,360 very similar to your recent accounts and 2574 01:28:27,910 --> 01:28:25,199 i wondered if this was related to the 2575 01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:27,920 info you had heard or and was indeed the 2576 01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:30,080 source of it 2577 01:28:35,110 --> 01:28:33,600 cheers dave and hi um 2578 01:28:37,110 --> 01:28:35,120 i haven't specifically heard about that 2579 01:28:38,390 --> 01:28:37,120 case but uh it does sound similar to 2580 01:28:39,750 --> 01:28:38,400 what i've been told 2581 01:28:41,910 --> 01:28:39,760 um 2582 01:28:42,709 --> 01:28:41,920 i don't know i'm just i'm very wary when 2583 01:28:45,110 --> 01:28:42,719 you know 2584 01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:45,120 people talk about graves or nordics i 2585 01:28:49,110 --> 01:28:46,080 bow 2586 01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:49,120 uh to the superior knowledge of my su 2587 01:28:52,950 --> 01:28:51,120 colleague dr michael masters 2588 01:28:55,270 --> 01:28:52,960 uh in terms of you know hominin 2589 01:28:56,470 --> 01:28:55,280 evolution okay i'm not scientifically 2590 01:28:59,510 --> 01:28:56,480 equipped to deal with that kind of 2591 01:29:01,030 --> 01:28:59,520 equation um but uh you know all i can do 2592 01:29:02,470 --> 01:29:01,040 is keep an open mind but it does sound 2593 01:29:04,070 --> 01:29:02,480 what you say very similar to what i've 2594 01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:04,080 heard 2595 01:29:07,189 --> 01:29:05,679 frank and i'm going to be selfish and 2596 01:29:09,590 --> 01:29:07,199 put on my own listener question here 2597 01:29:11,030 --> 01:29:09,600 it's my podcast don't forget to do that 2598 01:29:12,310 --> 01:29:11,040 we've not really touched on this and as 2599 01:29:13,669 --> 01:29:12,320 best you can 2600 01:29:15,910 --> 01:29:13,679 and i know you've seen the type who 2601 01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:15,920 doesn't like to really speculate or or 2602 01:29:18,870 --> 01:29:17,760 give you know off the cuff opinion but i 2603 01:29:20,550 --> 01:29:18,880 have to ask 2604 01:29:21,590 --> 01:29:20,560 when we come into the subject it's 2605 01:29:23,590 --> 01:29:21,600 usually 2606 01:29:25,430 --> 01:29:23,600 other aliens coming from other planets 2607 01:29:28,310 --> 01:29:25,440 and little flying saucers yes or no and 2608 01:29:30,470 --> 01:29:28,320 that's a fascinating question anyway 2609 01:29:33,189 --> 01:29:30,480 where you're at now right at the last 2610 01:29:35,669 --> 01:29:33,199 last days and hours of 2021 2611 01:29:36,950 --> 01:29:35,679 what do you think in your opinion is the 2612 01:29:38,790 --> 01:29:36,960 most likely 2613 01:29:40,470 --> 01:29:38,800 happening behind the phenomenon if 2614 01:29:42,629 --> 01:29:40,480 someone asked you in a few sentences to 2615 01:29:44,149 --> 01:29:42,639 sum up you know aliens do you believe in 2616 01:29:45,910 --> 01:29:44,159 all that what's going on what would you 2617 01:29:50,229 --> 01:29:45,920 say 2618 01:29:52,470 --> 01:29:50,239 yes no and i don't know um 2619 01:29:54,550 --> 01:29:52,480 i can keep a completely open mind 2620 01:29:56,470 --> 01:29:54,560 uh i've asked some of the most 2621 01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:56,480 intelligent people that i know like dr 2622 01:30:00,070 --> 01:29:57,840 michael masters 2623 01:30:01,430 --> 01:30:00,080 uh you know david mahler colonel john 2624 01:30:02,709 --> 01:30:01,440 alexander 2625 01:30:04,830 --> 01:30:02,719 um 2626 01:30:07,910 --> 01:30:04,840 you know rich hoffman who's been 2627 01:30:10,229 --> 01:30:07,920 studying uh the phenomena since uh you 2628 01:30:12,310 --> 01:30:10,239 know since before blue book started 2629 01:30:15,350 --> 01:30:12,320 i keep it to completely open mind uh 2630 01:30:16,950 --> 01:30:15,360 extraterrestrial hypothesis certainly uh 2631 01:30:19,590 --> 01:30:16,960 ultra-terrestrial 2632 01:30:22,310 --> 01:30:19,600 uh extra-dimensional uh all those are 2633 01:30:24,070 --> 01:30:22,320 possible just look at skinwalker uh i i 2634 01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:24,080 keep an open mind i don't know i don't 2635 01:30:28,709 --> 01:30:26,639 have the answers unfortunately um 2636 01:30:30,390 --> 01:30:28,719 i'd like to know one day 2637 01:30:31,910 --> 01:30:30,400 not yet if you had the answers that 2638 01:30:34,149 --> 01:30:31,920 would be a hell of a best-selling book 2639 01:30:35,910 --> 01:30:34,159 i'm sure that would be original um 2640 01:30:38,070 --> 01:30:35,920 listen let's finish off with a quick 2641 01:30:39,669 --> 01:30:38,080 fire round again few words few sentences 2642 01:30:41,669 --> 01:30:39,679 on each of these 2643 01:30:43,350 --> 01:30:41,679 one is what are your thoughts on 2644 01:30:44,950 --> 01:30:43,360 skinwalker ranch and what's happening 2645 01:30:46,830 --> 01:30:44,960 there 2646 01:30:49,830 --> 01:30:46,840 i think skinwalk is uh absolutely 2647 01:30:51,910 --> 01:30:49,840 phenomenal um i absolutely believe uh 2648 01:30:54,870 --> 01:30:51,920 what we're being told in terms of the 2649 01:30:56,229 --> 01:30:54,880 shows um and i think it's uh highly 2650 01:30:58,470 --> 01:30:56,239 credible the research they're doing 2651 01:30:59,910 --> 01:30:58,480 there i think that we just see uh you 2652 01:31:01,189 --> 01:30:59,920 know probably ten percent or five 2653 01:31:02,950 --> 01:31:01,199 percent of what they're actually going 2654 01:31:06,629 --> 01:31:02,960 through the 2655 01:31:08,070 --> 01:31:06,639 the role of consciousness and uaps 2656 01:31:10,229 --> 01:31:08,080 um yeah that's another excellent 2657 01:31:12,550 --> 01:31:10,239 question um i think consciousness plays 2658 01:31:15,030 --> 01:31:12,560 a very big part um i don't know to what 2659 01:31:16,709 --> 01:31:15,040 extent uh but uh 2660 01:31:20,070 --> 01:31:16,719 you know i i want to find out more but i 2661 01:31:22,709 --> 01:31:20,080 believe uh it could be you know uh 2662 01:31:26,470 --> 01:31:22,719 we are being you know fooled by 2663 01:31:28,950 --> 01:31:26,480 uh some kind of uh you know um you know 2664 01:31:30,629 --> 01:31:28,960 our own psychological prejudices towards 2665 01:31:33,750 --> 01:31:30,639 it or some kind of technology that 2666 01:31:36,390 --> 01:31:33,760 basically influences us or some kind of 2667 01:31:37,830 --> 01:31:36,400 mind to mind communication uh that uh 2668 01:31:39,430 --> 01:31:37,840 you know that gives us images that 2669 01:31:42,070 --> 01:31:39,440 aren't actually there uh some of it may 2670 01:31:45,110 --> 01:31:42,080 be real some of it maybe not 2671 01:31:47,590 --> 01:31:45,120 your thoughts on the abduction phenomena 2672 01:31:50,310 --> 01:31:47,600 i keep a completely open mind um i've 2673 01:31:52,149 --> 01:31:50,320 spoken with a number of other adoptees 2674 01:31:54,790 --> 01:31:52,159 um 2675 01:31:58,629 --> 01:31:54,800 including my mother i have to say and uh 2676 01:32:00,070 --> 01:31:58,639 i believe it completely credible 2677 01:32:02,149 --> 01:32:00,080 is that something you've talked about in 2678 01:32:03,830 --> 01:32:02,159 the past or is that one of those that 2679 01:32:05,189 --> 01:32:03,840 you're you go as far as i haven't talked 2680 01:32:07,030 --> 01:32:05,199 about in the past no but i believe it's 2681 01:32:09,110 --> 01:32:07,040 absolutely incredible i mean uh 2682 01:32:10,390 --> 01:32:09,120 i'm an experiencer there's just far too 2683 01:32:11,830 --> 01:32:10,400 many people 2684 01:32:13,350 --> 01:32:11,840 and i've talked to people credible 2685 01:32:15,189 --> 01:32:13,360 military people as well 2686 01:32:16,470 --> 01:32:15,199 well i mean you know i would take 2687 01:32:19,350 --> 01:32:16,480 anybody who's credible unless they're a 2688 01:32:21,270 --> 01:32:19,360 proven charlatan and bullshitter um 2689 01:32:23,270 --> 01:32:21,280 i've i've spoken to far too many people 2690 01:32:25,189 --> 01:32:23,280 who've had abduction experiences uh not 2691 01:32:27,270 --> 01:32:25,199 to take it seriously it's like you can't 2692 01:32:29,270 --> 01:32:27,280 have you know hundreds of thousands or 2693 01:32:31,110 --> 01:32:29,280 millions of people making this making 2694 01:32:33,750 --> 01:32:31,120 these things up and making up the same 2695 01:32:36,229 --> 01:32:33,760 kind of claims it's just not possible 2696 01:32:39,350 --> 01:32:36,239 so i find it highly credible 2697 01:32:43,510 --> 01:32:39,360 your thoughts on cattle mutilations 2698 01:32:45,910 --> 01:32:43,520 yeah i believe um i've been told um by 2699 01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:45,920 scientists that i talked to that uh one 2700 01:32:51,830 --> 01:32:48,719 theory is that cattle cattle mutilations 2701 01:32:54,070 --> 01:32:51,840 may be um linked to future humans in 2702 01:32:56,229 --> 01:32:54,080 terms of they are in a future 2703 01:32:57,990 --> 01:32:56,239 biodegraded environment where there 2704 01:32:59,510 --> 01:32:58,000 isn't enough protein where animals have 2705 01:33:02,629 --> 01:32:59,520 died off and that they want to 2706 01:33:06,070 --> 01:33:02,639 synthesize and and clone 2707 01:33:08,390 --> 01:33:06,080 proteins for their consumption 2708 01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:08,400 interesting um your thoughts on crop 2709 01:33:11,990 --> 01:33:10,480 circles 2710 01:33:14,470 --> 01:33:12,000 yeah crop circle is another interesting 2711 01:33:16,310 --> 01:33:14,480 one i've been told by scientists that um 2712 01:33:18,870 --> 01:33:16,320 that as a result apart from the the ones 2713 01:33:20,229 --> 01:33:18,880 that are hoaxed uh that is a result of 2714 01:33:22,870 --> 01:33:20,239 uap 2715 01:33:25,510 --> 01:33:22,880 extracting uh energy from the either but 2716 01:33:27,910 --> 01:33:25,520 they won't tell me how or why because 2717 01:33:29,510 --> 01:33:27,920 that's classified 2718 01:33:31,830 --> 01:33:29,520 sure and that's something we're going to 2719 01:33:33,830 --> 01:33:31,840 do a crop circle show on in 2022 because 2720 01:33:35,270 --> 01:33:33,840 i've i've not avoided but just not come 2721 01:33:36,870 --> 01:33:35,280 across doing that they've done that yet 2722 01:33:38,229 --> 01:33:36,880 so i'm really interested in that i don't 2723 01:33:40,070 --> 01:33:38,239 know enough about it to be honest but 2724 01:33:41,830 --> 01:33:40,080 i'm just told that the 2725 01:33:43,750 --> 01:33:41,840 uh 2726 01:33:47,110 --> 01:33:43,760 the physical characteristics of like the 2727 01:33:49,510 --> 01:33:47,120 corn stalks it is indicative of uap 2728 01:33:51,750 --> 01:33:49,520 activity extracting a particular kind of 2729 01:33:53,110 --> 01:33:51,760 energy from the from the either that's 2730 01:33:55,430 --> 01:33:53,120 what i'm told 2731 01:33:57,510 --> 01:33:55,440 what are your hopes for the uap subject 2732 01:33:58,870 --> 01:33:57,520 in the coming year 2733 01:34:01,590 --> 01:33:58,880 um 2734 01:34:03,189 --> 01:34:01,600 i hope that there will be one uap office 2735 01:34:04,790 --> 01:34:03,199 and not two 2736 01:34:07,350 --> 01:34:04,800 and i hope that it will be uh you know 2737 01:34:11,030 --> 01:34:07,360 as mandated by congress and i hope that 2738 01:34:12,709 --> 01:34:11,040 uh it will be uh to the spirit and also 2739 01:34:15,110 --> 01:34:12,719 to the letter of the law 2740 01:34:17,750 --> 01:34:15,120 and uh i hope that uh 2741 01:34:19,830 --> 01:34:17,760 the next uh unclassified report will 2742 01:34:22,470 --> 01:34:19,840 give us like more information than the 2743 01:34:23,750 --> 01:34:22,480 one that we received last june 2744 01:34:25,430 --> 01:34:23,760 do you think we're likely to see any 2745 01:34:27,669 --> 01:34:25,440 more of those videos that we've not had 2746 01:34:29,910 --> 01:34:27,679 for a couple of years now 2747 01:34:31,270 --> 01:34:29,920 i don't know but i'd like to see why for 2748 01:34:33,669 --> 01:34:31,280 example we shouldn't see something 2749 01:34:36,310 --> 01:34:33,679 declassified from i don't know the 1950s 2750 01:34:39,350 --> 01:34:36,320 the 1960s something that uh 2751 01:34:41,510 --> 01:34:39,360 uh was captured maybe by satellite or by 2752 01:34:43,750 --> 01:34:41,520 an aircraft sensor that is no longer 2753 01:34:45,109 --> 01:34:43,760 classified 2754 01:34:46,790 --> 01:34:45,119 sure that that would see why that 2755 01:34:48,629 --> 01:34:46,800 shouldn't be released to the public 2756 01:34:51,510 --> 01:34:48,639 because it it doesn't give away american 2757 01:34:53,669 --> 01:34:51,520 cable or british capabilities 2758 01:34:56,790 --> 01:34:53,679 no of course and the final one is what 2759 01:34:58,149 --> 01:34:56,800 does disclosure mean to you 2760 01:35:01,189 --> 01:34:58,159 okay disclosure means different things 2761 01:35:03,430 --> 01:35:01,199 to different people uh some people uh 2762 01:35:04,870 --> 01:35:03,440 want it to mean um you know like let it 2763 01:35:06,149 --> 01:35:04,880 all hang out on the line and you open 2764 01:35:08,229 --> 01:35:06,159 the hangar doors 2765 01:35:09,669 --> 01:35:08,239 uh and also unfortunately some people i 2766 01:35:12,070 --> 01:35:09,679 think it's because they want to bring 2767 01:35:15,109 --> 01:35:12,080 down the american government uh i don't 2768 01:35:17,430 --> 01:35:15,119 know it's maybe like um related to 2769 01:35:19,270 --> 01:35:17,440 anarchism because they don't trust uh 2770 01:35:21,350 --> 01:35:19,280 the government and they want to 2771 01:35:24,629 --> 01:35:21,360 basically break down all the barriers i 2772 01:35:26,950 --> 01:35:24,639 think that uh some secrets uh have to be 2773 01:35:29,189 --> 01:35:26,960 kept secret and you know i was a part of 2774 01:35:30,790 --> 01:35:29,199 that world i think what should be 2775 01:35:33,030 --> 01:35:30,800 declassified to the public should be 2776 01:35:35,189 --> 01:35:33,040 discussed declassified i think for me 2777 01:35:37,430 --> 01:35:35,199 disclosure is uh there's been secrecy 2778 01:35:38,870 --> 01:35:37,440 for far too long uh and i would like to 2779 01:35:40,629 --> 01:35:38,880 see you know the public getting a lot 2780 01:35:42,310 --> 01:35:40,639 more information obviously if we're not 2781 01:35:44,229 --> 01:35:42,320 alone in the universe or not alone on 2782 01:35:46,070 --> 01:35:44,239 earth then uh you know we all have a 2783 01:35:48,550 --> 01:35:46,080 right to know that within the bounds of 2784 01:35:49,590 --> 01:35:48,560 uh of national security something that 2785 01:35:51,430 --> 01:35:49,600 will not give 2786 01:35:53,750 --> 01:35:51,440 assistance to the likes of you know 2787 01:35:56,229 --> 01:35:53,760 china russia iran et cetera but you know 2788 01:35:57,750 --> 01:35:56,239 we all have a right to know um you know 2789 01:35:59,430 --> 01:35:57,760 about our own existence and what can 2790 01:36:00,629 --> 01:35:59,440 improve our own existence and you know 2791 01:36:02,070 --> 01:36:00,639 whether we're alone or not i mean 2792 01:36:03,590 --> 01:36:02,080 because you know that is the ultimate 2793 01:36:05,910 --> 01:36:03,600 question isn't it 2794 01:36:07,430 --> 01:36:05,920 absolutely is in the description to this 2795 01:36:08,709 --> 01:36:07,440 show i'm going to have links to those 2796 01:36:10,550 --> 01:36:08,719 papers that you mentioned that you've 2797 01:36:11,830 --> 01:36:10,560 written in the past then because those 2798 01:36:13,750 --> 01:36:11,840 are something that people will ask me 2799 01:36:15,189 --> 01:36:13,760 about no doubt and also your social 2800 01:36:16,870 --> 01:36:15,199 media handles how people could get in 2801 01:36:18,390 --> 01:36:16,880 touch with you but do you want to just 2802 01:36:19,830 --> 01:36:18,400 finish off frank letting people know 2803 01:36:21,350 --> 01:36:19,840 what's to come for yourself in the 2804 01:36:22,709 --> 01:36:21,360 coming year as well what can we expect 2805 01:36:25,109 --> 01:36:22,719 from you 2806 01:36:27,510 --> 01:36:25,119 yeah sure um i've actually been uh very 2807 01:36:29,030 --> 01:36:27,520 kindly invited um kind of all expenses 2808 01:36:30,870 --> 01:36:29,040 paid to um 2809 01:36:32,550 --> 01:36:30,880 uh the largest um 2810 01:36:34,629 --> 01:36:32,560 uh security and defense conference in 2811 01:36:35,990 --> 01:36:34,639 the world coming up in january so i'm 2812 01:36:38,070 --> 01:36:36,000 gonna go and do that and i'm gonna be 2813 01:36:39,990 --> 01:36:38,080 talking about uh you know advanced kind 2814 01:36:42,390 --> 01:36:40,000 of like beyond next generation uh 2815 01:36:45,030 --> 01:36:42,400 technologies okay it's not like a uap 2816 01:36:46,870 --> 01:36:45,040 conference per se but uh i'll get uap in 2817 01:36:48,790 --> 01:36:46,880 there somewhere uh but it's gonna be 2818 01:36:50,070 --> 01:36:48,800 nice to me it's gonna be like um 2819 01:36:52,070 --> 01:36:50,080 it's gonna be you know the first time 2820 01:36:54,149 --> 01:36:52,080 away that i've had in two years since 2821 01:36:56,709 --> 01:36:54,159 all this this covered crap hit so i'm 2822 01:36:59,750 --> 01:36:56,719 kind of looking forward to it and um 2823 01:37:03,109 --> 01:36:59,760 it's uh the former head of mi5 is going 2824 01:37:05,510 --> 01:37:03,119 to be there uh as a keynote speaker the 2825 01:37:07,510 --> 01:37:05,520 former head of the uk defense staff 2826 01:37:09,270 --> 01:37:07,520 so it's going to be a very very 2827 01:37:10,950 --> 01:37:09,280 interesting event 2828 01:37:12,550 --> 01:37:10,960 excellent well frank i look forward to 2829 01:37:14,149 --> 01:37:12,560 speaking to you again hopefully in the 2830 01:37:15,590 --> 01:37:14,159 coming year and also hearing you more 2831 01:37:16,629 --> 01:37:15,600 from you it's been a great talking with 2832 01:37:20,629 --> 01:37:16,639 you 2833 01:37:22,629 --> 01:37:20,639 that is all for this week's show thank 2834 01:37:24,629 --> 01:37:22,639 you very much for listening please 2835 01:37:27,270 --> 01:37:24,639 remember to leave the podcast to review 2836 01:37:29,590 --> 01:37:27,280 on your chosen platform you can like 2837 01:37:31,510 --> 01:37:29,600 retweet and subscribe that would all be 2838 01:37:33,669 --> 01:37:31,520 very much appreciated the shows are 2839 01:37:35,189 --> 01:37:33,679 being uploaded onto youtube as we speak 2840 01:37:37,669 --> 01:37:35,199 more and more you can sign up at 2841 01:37:40,390 --> 01:37:37,679 patreon.com forward slash that ufo 2842 01:37:42,629 --> 01:37:40,400 podcast access shows ad free as well 2843 01:37:45,510 --> 01:37:42,639 please get in touch on twitter facebook 2844 01:37:49,750 --> 01:37:45,520 instagram that ufo podcast of course on 2845 01:37:51,430 --> 01:37:49,760 twitter ufo uap am and again folks as 2846 01:37:53,790 --> 01:37:51,440 always keep looking up you never know 2847 01:38:14,229 --> 01:37:53,800 what you might see 2848 01:38:14,239 --> 01:38:20,900 is 2849 01:38:20,910 --> 01:38:36,070 [Music] 2850 01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:55,189 cuz 2851 01:38:57,990 --> 01:38:56,470 they thought this was noise they thought 2852 01:38:59,970 --> 01:38:58,000 it was a dream they thought it was my 2853 01:39:09,210 --> 01:38:59,980 toys 2854 01:39:09,220 --> 01:39:19,109 [Music] 2855 01:39:19,119 --> 01:39:23,690 and what's that 2856 01:39:51,430 --> 01:39:29,030 [Music] 2857 01:39:59,430 --> 01:39:53,480 what's up 2858 01:40:01,350 --> 01:39:59,440 [Music] 2859 01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:01,360 it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a